July 19, 2011
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Morality Without God
Atheists often hear the question, “How can you be moral without God?” The real question is, “How can a moral person accept God?” If the scriptures are true, God sets a terrible example for Goodness.
Atheists often hear the question, “How can you be moral without God?” The real question is, “How can a moral person accept God?” If the scriptures are true, God sets a terrible example for Goodness.
Comments (15)
Really, I think morality has nothing to do with G-d or godlessness. There are social norms that do shape our morals, and there is an inherent ability in humans to choose between their percived right and wrong. I don’t think Romans were immoral, they just had different morals than today’s society does.
This is one of my least favorite arguments. Clearly, if you don’t believe in God, you must be evil! Um, no… There are other sources of morality and other incentives to be good people. Secular law, societal influence, education, parenting, social interactions and circles, and a host of other factors come together to shape a person’s mores. God is not the exclusive source of morality. Nearly every documented society has condemned the murder of innocent peoples. Now, they define “innocent” differently, perhaps, but murder is the cessation of a life against the victim’s will. How can this be a universal more when not all societies believe in the Christian God, if morality is solely derived from Christianity?
I’m on the fence about this video. I appreciate the message, but the argument against it will easily be that it refers to the Old Testament God. With the introduction of the New Testament, God became a loving, forgiving god. Or so I’m told. I’m rec’ing it anyway. Regardless of what evidence is offered, the point that atheists can and do exhibit morality stands.
Huhm.
Morals and ethics, the definitions of those do not include “God” in most dictionaries, nor in Sociological/Human Resources/Org Behavior/Marketing/Psychology.
The Christians who believe that those who don’t believe in God are immoral do not understand the teachings of Christianity. You and I can both agree that we have the same morals. Murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, adultery is wrong, etc. If Christianity is true, that means that our morality comes from God. It doesn’t only apply to Christians, it applies to all of us. If Atheism is true, then our morality comes from society, or some biological factor. Either way, we all have the same morals, regardless of what we believe. Some people just choose not to follow these moral laws.
Oh, and to comment on the video, just because it’s written in the Bible, doesn’t mean God endorses it. Some of those examples (e.g. Lot’s daughters having sex with him because they thought they were the last ones in the world) are not endorsed by God, but merely written in the Bible because they happened. Observation and the recording of an event does NOT equal endorsement.
I agree with Dostoyevsky, Patrick Madrid, etc. Without God, by definition, evil must reign at all times entirely supreme. A materialist world is unavoidably necessarily a world without purpose. Matter can’t have any moral code to be required to live by. Formal & final causality are necessary for hope to prevail.
Sorry, one more comment. “Morality is a choice.” Wrong, morality isn’t a choice, whether you follow laws of morality is a choice. The laws of morality simply are, just like laws are. The choice comes in whether you follow the laws. Murder is wrong. Period. If you believe murder is okay, that doesn’t mean you have different morals, that just means you are breaking moral law.
@itsmethelion - It’s true that matter doesn’t have any moral code. It doesn’t follow that we don’t; that’s a textbook fallacy of composition. It’s true that giving an account of the objectivity of moral claims is very difficult – but bringing gods into the picture doesn’t help with the task whatsoever.
@itsmethelion - Christians define true, pure, complete love as God. God is the ultimate loving entity. Evil is being completely removed from God. When you remove God, you have to redefine love and evil. As for the world without purpose, I completely agree. Without God, we have no purpose. We must make our own purpose. Of course, the Atheist’s trek to determine what their purpose should be isn’t that different from a Christian’s trek to determine what their purpose is.
The real question is, “How can a moral person accept God?” If the
scriptures are true, God sets a terrible example for Goodness.
That is kind of an over-generalization, in context of the video at least, isn’t it?
I get annoyed when people find out that I’m an atheist and they automatically assume I have no morals. I do have morals, believe it or not. Believing in God and doing things the bible says because you “have to or you’ll go to hell” DOES NOT make someone moral. I am a good, decent and yes, moral, person because *I* want to be, not because someone scared some hell into me.
Religion reflects the world and human nature in a terribly accurate manner, and obviously that makes sense, as religion is born of the minds of men. But I think you have to look at it in a fair manner… you’re being just as unfair in portraying it in a biased manner by only pointing out the bits where it expresses evil and immoral things. It’s the EXACT same thing people are doing to you, just flipped, and so incredibly hypocritical. They ask you how you can have morals without belief in God because they ignore the bad and only see the good teachings… you flip it around but do the same damn thing by throwing it back at them saying you can because their religion is only “bad”, their God is only “bad” in teaching them these things, YOU only choosing to see the BAD and not the good teachings in religion, which actually are there too. It’s a decent reflection of human nature in that it is not purely good nor evil… but people will see ONLY what they want from it regardless. Until you can stop looking at it in a biased manner, then you can’t expect anyone else to, you know. It’s not fair to expect more of others than you can of yourself.
Great video. I’ve often said that Christianity’s God is bi polar and schizophrenic. He loves you, then he hates you, then he smites you, then he saves you. Its like make up your fucking mind already. If he were a real person he would be in constant therapy and heavily drugged. Fortunately though the whole thing is bullshit.
Ok, I am a Christian, fact. I don’t know everything, fact. I don’t believe morality is exclusive to Christians. The Old Testament God, according to the bible is the same as the New Testament God for it is stated that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I don’t think like God so I don’t know the why of everything therefore I can only contribute by saying morality is NOT just a God issue.
The various scriptures are Bronze Age and Iron Age attempts to put into words profound personal experiences, interpretation of events and thoughts about the meaning of life. Words on paper can never completely reflect the thoughts of God. That holds where She exists or not.