March 18, 2008
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Questions
I will post my thoughts in a bit but I would love to hear your thoughts………
Does the denomination matter? Does it matter to you? Will you always have to be affiliated with the
same denomination no matter what? Or if you are in a non denominational
church, is
there a reason why?
have you ever attended or belonged to a church that had rules (either
explicit or implicit) about things like the way you dress, what forms
of entertainment
were or weren’t allowed, etc? how did it make you feel? how did you
respond? were these rules that would cause non-Christians to avoid your
church? if your church has rules regarding dress, music, alcohol, etc, do they back it up Biblically?……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
ok….I will answer my own questions but would still love to hear your answers……
Does the denomination matter? Does it matter to you? Will you always have to be affiliated with the same denomination no matter what? Or if you are in a non denominational church, is there a reason why?
I love Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Churches. You know basically that they all believe basically the same thing but they are independent and are not controlled by some denominational headquarters on the other side of the country.
But the demonination doesn’t really matter to me. I need to feel comfortable where I am. I wouldn’t feel comfortable in a jean wearing, rock/contemporary music playing, modern version using, entertainment oriented church no matter the denomination.
And I think I would be pretty comfortable in any Bible strong preaching, women dress to church wearing (I am dresses/skirts only but the church doesn’t have to be), hymn singing, KJV type church no matter the denomination
ok on to the next set of Questions……
I think churches should have rules for their members and enforce them. I think it is biblical.
Rules are for members not visitorsSome that I can think of would be (hope you still all love me after you see my list of church rules that I believe in):
BIBLE VERSIONS – It is of keen interest that all pastors, speakers, teachers, missionaries, and evangelists use the King James Version of the Bible, or a Bible translated from the same line as the Received Text.
CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN MUSIC – In light of the modern trend to use and adopt contemporary Christian music (CCM) it is imperative that the church hold to the traditional music standards and do not compromise the ministry with rock music.
DRESS CODE- that women do not wear pants and that men do not wear shorts to church. modest below-the-knee length dresses along with long hair, and that men wear dress slacks (no blue jeans) and wear a shirt and tie, and maintain a short hair cut. Modest dress means not form-fitting, see-through, low-cut, or revealing.
MEMBERSHIP – that every activity of the believer ought to be under the auspices of his local church. Each believer should be an active member of a Bible-believing church.
CHARISMATISM -we must reject the modern charismatic movement with its tongues speaking, false healings, and emphasis of the Holy Spirit over Jesus Christ.
DIVORCE IN THE MINISTRY – divorce or marriage to a divorcee disallows the privilege to be in the ministry, i.e., as a missionary, pastor, evangelist, or deacon. (This does not mean that divorced people cannot do the work of the ministry, but they should not serve in official capacities.)
BIBLICAL MARRIAGE – marriage is a legal and sexual relationship between a man and a woman, who become husband and wife. Any other sexual relationship between a man and a women outside of marriage is unacceptable, non-Biblical and will not be tolerated in the membership of the church. The Bible does not recognize homosexual relationships as healthy, sound, viable marriages or families.
REGULAR ATTENDANCE – Regular attendance is necessary to be a member
ALCOHOL – no drinking alcohol
SMOKING – no smoking allowed
Those are the ones I think of off the top of my head.
I believe in Churches having true set rules (for the members) and enforcing them.
Comments (40)
Got two more notes saying I was tagged, but I answered it, didn’t I?
i will answer tonight while i’m in bed.
Droppin’ a drive-by “Hi” and “props”. So, ah. Hi!
question number 1
I attend a church that is simply for people who Love god and want to learn about God without a religion attached to it. We are christians though if you really think of it religiously. I wouldnt mind what kind of denomination or religion it was as long as it felt true, real, raw, loving, caring, the way Jesus would want it.
question number two
well churches really should have a set of rules and i think religions should to or just any person even if they are athiest. If we didnt have rules then there would be absolutely nothing to grow from, learn from, etc. I believe in the rules that are in the bible and i think those are the ones that should be enforced. .
The bible simply says that it is okay to drink but not to get drunk. Jesus drank wine but did not get drunk.
The bible also talks about Jesus drinking wine, but he did not get drunk, it is okay to drink just to not get drunk.
just a question for you, what do you mean by enforce them?
oh and i have to ask you about the pastor rule thing, do you honestly think its fair to deny someones right to be a pastor… God forgives and honestly those rules are tight and limits people to be themselves and feel comfortable and what about the kids in the church, how do they feel? I dont understand your set of rules etc but i totally dont care what you believe in its not something i do but, if you do then i guess you understand it and feel it and love it passionately just like i love my way of doing church and loving god etc.
@kel7773 - the bible says husband of one wife. So yes it is totally fair. The bible is clear on it.
I saw that you visited my xanga so I dropped by to see yours. I really like your posts and will enjoy reading them in the future.
Thank you for sharing your view and what’s important to you in worship and service. May God give you grace to follow in His ways and to keep your eyes on His eternal glory. I’m so thankful that “He who began a good work in us will be faithful to bring it to completion..” Can you even imagine if it was all up to us?! :-O
I’ll take a stab at the questions..
I don’t claim to be infallible and believe that by God’s grace we live and move and have our being, and that He is constantly growing us up. Even Christ grew in “Wisdom, stature and in favor with God and man.”
Let’s see……
Whether denomination or no denomination, I believe if the motivation of structure, belief and practice is to glorify God in ALL THINGS and honor Christ, His virgin birth, sinless death, resurrection, and some day, glorious return, then they can be a wonderful place to join with the body of believers in sharing the Gospel and serving Him in humility and grace.
I have been in denominations that had more rules than others… how I “felt” about it was directly affected by my answer above. If the gathering had the rules for the purpose of glorifying God, elevating His honor, with humility of heart, it was a good thing. If their rules were for the elevation of man, in the displaying of good works for the sake of being well thought of and for the purpose of controlling and being pharisaical, then it was a WHOLE different feeling.
I agree! Rules are meant to be followed. Obedience is key. God bless! =)
Well sistah we are pretty much on the same page ! I however will always be baptist. I say Baptist is the way all the way everyday. See John the ” Baptist” baptisted Jesus not John the ” Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist or whatever” so based on that it clears it up for me. Amen
Certainly I love the old style Christian music none of this honkey tonk, hip hop cayoss that is out there. The old stuff still stirs the soul so why try something else. I mean man is into re creating something that God has already created that works fine. Change is no something I like as I explained in a couple of posts ago.
I love the hard solid , loud, in your face get convicted preaching. Praise the Lord for my preacher who tears us apart for the love of God.
Drinking is just of the devil period, should be outlawed. I laugh people around here say “well I wreckin I’m gonna have me a few beers to relax its been a hard day.” Please take a hot shower shut hells box office off and go to bed ! That relaxes yah too folks ! Smoking is just the same. All man made , pretty much all to destroy your body. God asks us to treat ourselves as a temple. I cetainly could not imagine so fat nasty beer belly idiot drinking inside a HOLY TEMPLE and spitting wacky tabacky out on the floor, or puffing cigs. Gosh just the thought makes me laugh, but I am sure somewhere so dummy would do it.
I know many of you might think I am sorta out spoken but oh well. I would rather not beat around the bush but just say it like it is.
I just love the ol King James 1611, I love my boys to look like boys and my girls to look like girls. I love to dress up and sing my heart out in church. I love to shout and praise the Lord throughout the week. I can’t tell yah how much God has blessed my family.
AMEN!!! I agree with you on all these points!!!
This is a good post and to answer your question’s, i do agree on your answer, when i was little i grew up in a methodist church and join as a teenager when i was in my twenty we were invited to a Independent church , we stayed and are still involve in a Independent church, i believe in the King James, that is the only bible that are church use, i am not say that it wrong to use the other newer ones but this is what i feel that god wants in our lives, we believe in being saved and then Baptize after you become a child of god.
(we do have Dedication of babies), i do also believe that what you said that man shall have one wife, this is not saying that they can not become saved and god will forgive them , but as far as being on the board are a pastor will i think the bible explain that very good, there is work for them to do and that goes for women also. we do not believe in drinking are smoking , i am not judging any one that does only God can convict them of this area, As for the music i love the old songs and just a few of the newer ones. no hard christian rock for me we use the song books yet in our church.Dress code for me is still a skirt are a dress, i do were pants but not to a church service, will wear them to a meeting are dinner, there are some that will wear pants to church, and again i don’t judge them but for me i ratter not as far a shorts i don’t think this should be wore in Gods house and are pastor had said this many of times, we should dress so that we do not draw attention to are self . WE were always taught that the wine in Bible day is like grape juice that we drink today, it was the fresh grapes that they use and not the fermented ones Yes there were people that did drink the fermented kind and got drunk just like today but there again people have ther own thoughts on this but for me its wrong . will i hope that i have answer some of your question about what we believe in our lives and in our church,
Have a great week and thanks so much for sharing your thought’s with us and letting us share ours, we are all Gods chrildren and we must contiune to live in a way that would show others that we are christian
GOD BLESS,
SANDY
The very definition of religion is “way of life”. I think each person should belong and practice the faith that they themselves are spiritually led to. Not everyone can worship in Latin services, not everyone feels spiritually compelled to be Baptised, or to take Sacraments. If you are compelled to a certain Sacrament, then you are personally held accountable to that one. The Lord accepts children and innocents. One cannot be held accountable to something if they have never been taught the wrongness, or the rightness, thereof.
I personally belong to a church that allows and encourages the rich and homeless to worship side by side. The leaders wear distinct uniforms, but the members can show up in whatever they own. Our church began its missions on the streets, and still continues those missions now. I have attended other churches, but I am always spiritually compelled to return to the church of my childhood and I am happy to have my children learn these same accepting ways. When they are old enough, I will encourage them to find the faith that they are most comfortable with, whether it be mine or another.
As for pastors, my church accepts both men and women as members of clergy. I am very proud to say that my younger single sister has accepted God’s calling to the ministry. What a sin for her God-given talents to be wasted if she belonged to a faith that accepted men only as servants of God.
lol, if I chose not to love you for something like that, then I could hardly call myself Christian.
“Does the denomination matter?”
I think that as long as all denominations focus on the true message and love of Christ, then they’re ok.
“Does it matter to you?”
Not really, no, as long as there is a strong focus on Christ, as mentioned above.
“Will you always have to be affiliated with the
same denomination no matter what?”
More than likely, I will not. I was raised Baptist, but when my parents actually took me to church I was too young to take much from it, other than that Jesus loved me. When I got old enough to go on my own, I attended another Baptist church and started dating a girl from the First Christian Church (who I’m still with after 3 years), and then after I moved off to college I started attending a non-denominational church. I call myself Baptist because I’ve had the most affiliation with that denomination. I think if I found a different church later on that I felt comfortable with, I could probably attend. If I marry my current girlfriend, there will obviously have to be a compromise unless we attend different churches.
“Or if you are in a non denominational
church, is
there a reason why?”
I needed a new church for college, I had experienced the church before, and the pastor is great!
“have you ever attended or belonged to a church that had rules (either
explicit or implicit) about things like the way you dress, what forms
of entertainment
were or weren’t allowed, etc?”
Nope
About the strict rules, I think it can be a good and a bad thing… It’s good because it gives more encouragement to hold fast to the Bible’s teachings, but I think it’s bad because, if someone does fall short (as we all do), but in a major way, they shouldn’t necessarily be shunned for it, in my opinion (by the way, it was never clear to me what actually happens to people who violate these rules. In the rest of my post, I will act as if they are denied membership, as that is what I took from it. Please correct me if I’m wrong). It kind of reminds me of “The Scarlet Letter.” This may be different from what you’ve been taught, but I’ve been taught that all sin is the same in the eyes of God, therefore, if the church isn’t going to tolerate premarital sex, then neither should it tolerate, and to the same extent and degree, lying, coveting, lust, etc., and that’s the main reason I think this system can be flawed. Human’s assign certain degrees to sin, God doesn’t (from what I’VE learned).
Anyway, I believe in forgiveness and redemption as taught in the Bible. My argument would be that denying a person these things through membership of the church would be non-Biblical since Christ’s ultimate teachings were of love and forgiveness. I’m quite uneducated though, and I could also be misconceiving something completely, so please politely inform me if I am incorrect in any part of my post.
My main question is this: why can’t the church help (or at least offer to help) these people who fall short, rather than denying them membership (if that be the case) because of their shortcomings? To ME, that would seem to be the more Christian approach, instead of casting out those who fall short.
God Bless,
Chris
By the way, I don’t want anyone to think that I’m saying that church rules ARE bad, I said that they can be bad. I think someone already mentioned this, but it depends on the intent. I was just reading over my comment and wanted to clarify this.
God Bless,
Chris
@Soul_in_Motion - A church would help the person, but the person has to be willing to repent and make a 180 degree turn away from the sin.
Love your thoughts. I may be coming from the other end, having been raised in an Amish/Menn. group that more implied rules then written. Then being part of a group with written rules. Our church has under went some changes in the last year to make it easier for those who come in from non-Menn. background. That was only in issues of dress and music and in no way to compromise bible principles. We don’t allow radios either and don’t miss it a bit. But with internet access we find out all the news. Even this past Sun. some fellows from our church appeared on the news on TV as they were helping search for a missing neighbor lady. And yes, we don’t believe in doing unnecessary work or shopping on Sundays (the Lord’s day) but due to the circumstances our neighborhood was going through, someone did run to the store for food for searchers and were out ‘working’ to look for this lady. As of yest. she wasn’t found yet. So allowances are made for unusual situations that involve helping others.
I look at ‘rules’ as safety guidelines to keep us from becoming involved in things that we shouldn’t. Our church allows DVD’s but they need to be educational. And our son plays some computer games that help him learn basic skills. Some families allow more then others, it depends on what they term as educational. Sometimes we need to ask ourselves the question, ‘What would Jesus have us do, watch?”
Thanks Kristenmomof3 for your comment on my blog
@kel7773 - The purpose of the church of Jesus Christ, is for Christians to come together and be instructed in Christ’s sovereignty over creation and their lives, and to exhort each other to be more like Jesus. It is not for entertainment, although it certainly is a joy to be part of a good church, if you love the holy Jesus of the bible. If the pastor is failing to show you sin in your lives each week, then he is probably not doing his job properly.
As for rules being enforced.. the major distinction between a christian church and other people, is that the church loves God and hates sin. It’s not that they are perfect, but their heart is to love God and hate sin.. and therefore by God’s grace live a mostly pure life.. other people do not have this distinctive as far as the bible’s instruction is concerned.
Without rules, there is no boundary. There is also no reflection of the purity of God’s character. With enforcement, we see the church keeps its heart pure before God, and those who wish to hate God and love sin, and kept from participating in the church, so that it keeps its distinctive. Hope this helps.
PS. the key reason for putting people outside, is so they realize that God hates sin, and hopefully they will turn from this sin to Christ, and be saved from God’s wrath after death.
@RallyJan - Great reply.
I hope you don’t mind me asking…..what conference are you?
Before I was married I was a Martin
Do you have any relatives up here in Pa?
I agree with you on most of that! I wear pants to church and our boys sometimes wear jeans but we’re a very small, country church. I do wear dresses/skirts sometimes but at home I’m always in blue jeans – that’s my Domestic Goddess uniform!
As far as the music, I don’t like a lot of heavy sound. I think it takes away from the message. I think the words and meaning of a song’s lyrics are more important than the music but the music shouldn’t interfere with another person’s being able to understand what you’re singing about! Did that make sense?
I’m really drawn to the old-fashioned bluegrass gospel music. It’s just so simple, humble and moving.
Rules in church? I think of them as rules straight from God’s Instruction Book (the Bible). The church isn’t supposed to conform to the world. We, as Christians, are supposed to strive to be more like Christ. These rules are based on his way of living so if you don’t like ‘em, too bad!
Kudos to you for standing up and being a proud, non-conforming Christian woman. The world needs more like you!
i disagree with some of the rules churches make becuz some people won’t go then! these matters are between God and that person. not another group of sinners.
RYC- we would be considered Beachy/ Menn. And yes, I have a number of relatives in PA but I do know that PA is LOADED with all kinds of Amish/Menn. groups! My relatives live in the Buffalo Valley area, most of them @ Mifflinburg and a few scattered within an hour from there. That would include my maternal grandma, aunts, uncles, and a number of cousins. My mother married in VA, hence that is where I grew up and a lot of my paternal relatives live there.
@RallyJan - I am in Lancaster County
Does the denomination matter? No, not really. I’ve always been Apostolic and that was all I knew for a long time. When I married I was introduced to the Protestant church.
Does it matter to you? No.
Will you always have to be affiliated with the same denomination no matter what? I don’t think that I would have to stay with the same but I have to say after seeing how liberal the Protestant church is I wish never to be a part of it. My husband actually thought they were conservative until he came to my church LOL!
Have you ever attended or belonged to a church that had rules (either explicit or implicit) about things like the way you dress, what forms of entertainment were or weren’t allowed, etc? Yes, my church which I have been attending all my life has always had strict rules. Some of them are not to put your arm across the pew, do not cross your legs, no lipstick when taking communion (which we do every week), men must wear suites, women much dress modestly though we can wear slacks. Our hair must be covered when taking communion.
how did it make you feel? I love it and would have it no other way. When I see how people come to church at my husbands church it puts me in a state of shock. Such disrespect to Christ.
how did you respond? I always dress modestly and wear skirts. I only wish they were as strick as back in the day when women could not come with pants and you couldn’t come to church with your hair uncovered. My Priest said it was so difficult to get the women to cover their hair for communion that having them cover to come to church would send people over the edge. I think it’s a fear of loosing the congregation.
were these rules that would cause non-Christians to avoid your church? Yes, I believe many who do not want these rules will find more liberal denomination that suite their needs.
if your church has rules regarding dress, music, alcohol, etc, do they back it up Biblically? Yes, he frequently addresses the topic in our monthly news letter. He’s very good and backing it all up with Biblical reference.
“Does the denomination matter?” ”Does it matter to you?”
Let’s see, I have been to the Worldwide Church of God, Southern Baptist, National Baptist, and the Evangelical Free. Each of those denominations had their strong points and I wouldn’t mind going to any of those again. So I guess that means that the denomination matters not to me.
Will you always have to be affiliated with the same denomination no matter what?
Well, I guess I answered that one too. Go back to my previous answer.
Or if you are in a non denominational church, is there a reason why?
Not Applicable.
“have you ever attended or belonged to a church that had rules (either explicit or implicit) about things like the way you dress, what forms of entertainment were or weren’t allowed, etc? how did it make you feel? how did you respond? were these rules that would cause non-Christians to avoid your church? if your church has rules regarding dress, music, alcohol, etc, do they back it up Biblically?”
Orginally when my family was attending WCOG, they had a lot of rules for them members, many of those were later removed as they were found to not be biblical. My church does not have rules regarding dress, although when I became a student intern, I was told that I needed to be clean shaven and to wear a shirt with a collar. We have had and continue to have paid staff members who drink alcohol. This does not bother me as they do not make a big show of it and they keep it pretty much to an at home use. None of them have ever brought a 6 pack to the church potluck. Regarding music, we have pretty much used it all, we had a christian rock band known as “Redmark” come and lead worship for us last year on a sunday morning. We sold one of three church vans to a Christian Rock band that needed it so they could go on tour. We used to have a Southern Gospel trio known as “Wings Of Love” come up every year for our church anniversary but recently they have had trouble with deaths in the family and such so they have been unable to come. Music does not bother me as long as the words are biblical and that the music is done for the glory of God and not just done to show off how talented you are. Does Amazing Grace become unbiblical because it is done on a guitar? I think not.
Oh wow I love your Church Rules and The Denomination shouldn’t matter to have a personal relatioship with the Saviour and living a Godly and pure life. I wear pants at home and at doctors appointments. The other times if it’s for Church related stuff I wear dresses and skirts. I am pretty new at this and learning and getting more dresses and skirts each month or so. Well, going to start too. The Christian Contemp music I use only at home and not in a Church Setting. Hymnals needs to be used for worshipping the Saviour.
Wow! I’ll jump in here.
First, let me say that I really enjoy reading your blog. I think it is wonderful that you stand strongly for what you believe. I said that in love because I’m going to disagree with much of what you said.
What denomination the church is does not matter to me. A church’s statement of faith matters very much. I look for a belief in Christ as the ONLY means of salvation, a belief in the inerrancy of Scripture, a belief in the Trinity – God is three persons, Christ is God. If a church has these basics, I can pretty much worship with them no matter their other doctrines or style.
I have been in a PCA church, an Independent Baptist Church, a Southern Baptist church, and a nondenominational church. My least favorite - the Independent Baptist – there was a lot of legalist rule following without much heart commitment, and in fact, the pastor, who was considered godlke by that congregation was later convicted of several crimes!
I do not think it appropriate for the church to have rules that are not expressly stated in Scripture. For example, a rule about women wearing dresses – the principle in Scripture is modesty. There is no verse of Scripture that says women should wear dresses to church. I do think it is appropriate for the church to have rules that ARE expressly stated in Scripture and to use church discipline to uphold them. For example, Scripture very clearly forbids adultery. It is not just a principle, it is an explicit statement. Sp, if a church member were living in an adulterous relationship, I think it would be appropriate for the church leaders to follow the rules for confronting a brother in Matthew 18.
As far as Bible translations, music, worship style, I think that is all majoring on the minors. When we get caught up in judging other’s personal preferences in those areas, we are not living in love which is the “greatest commandment” according to Christ Himself.
So, that is my take. I hope you won’t “love me less” now.
Again, I have the greatest respect for you, and it is certainly not my place or intention to change any of your convictions. Your personal convictions are between you and God, and you should live the way you believe He is leading you to live.
@Kristenmomof3 -
ok thanks, that clears up a lot, lol. In that case, I think a rule system that works like you’ve described can be a great thing, though I’ve never been under one myself. I don’t currently have a problem with drinking, smoking, or premarital sexual relationships or anything like that and don’t intend to, so even if I were I a member of such I church, I probably wouldn’t be too dramatically affected by it, and if they did have a problem with something I did (can’t imagine what) then I think I’d be willing to change as long as I had the help.
God Bless,
Chris
@KJVcountrygirl08 - “Hymnals needs to be used for worshipping the Saviour.”
Why?
Does the denomination matter? nope, I think in churches it is more important than any other thing to not judge a book by its cover, or in this case it’s denomination.Does it matter to you? nopeWill you always have to be affiliated with the
same denomination no matter what?
to say something like that would really show a lack of wisdom. Earthly churches are ruled by earthly men. They make mistakes and the Bible says we ought to obey God rather then men.Or if you are in a non denominational
church, is
there a reason why?
nope, actually independent baptist
have you ever attended or belonged to a church that had rules (either
explicit or implicit) about things like the way you dress, what forms
of entertainment
were or weren’t allowed, etc?
yep, -women in dresses knee length or or longer, men in jacket and ties – quieter music -no drinking – no smoking – no divorce – no remarriage if your spouse left you, you are to remain alone the rest of your life even if the spouse remarries – homeschooling based on Gen 18:19, Deut. 4:9-10, Deut. 6:5-7, Is 54:13, Eph 6:4 – no necklaces on women (brings attention to their chest) – men to be pastors and deacons – communion given first Sunday of each month - women to only teach women and children – men to only teach men or mixed groups – and more
how did it make you feel? how did you
respond?
fine, I grew up in it and really didn’t know any other way.
were these rules that would cause non-Christians to avoid your
church?
yes, it is really intimidating to non-Christians kinda like culture shock if we went to a different country. Plus many of them are more traditional things that really have no Biblical backing, just that is the way it has always been done that is the way we will always do it. For instance you could literally set a watch by what was occurring in the church service.
if your church has rules regarding dress, music, alcohol, etc, do they back it up Biblically?
Well now I am in a different church and I will say yes they do.
For dress women don’t all where dresses, but those who don’t wear very femanite clothing. They even had classes on how to dress fashionable yet modestly with the teen girls including the Biblical reasons why and then took them shopping to and let them do a little fashion show with a devotional about modesty at the end.
But they also don’t look down on people because of how they dress and the allow the Lord to convict them. I actually know of a mission church in SE PA that they just tell people how they should dress and that they should always wear dresses. This bothers me because I know these same people get all excited about these missionaries that travel the world and have to dress in the cultural clothes of that country. But for some reason they get upset over the cultural clothing of the US. One of the first things you do when you go into another country is dress like the natives so that they feel more comfortable around you and are more open to the Bible, but for some reason they don’t understand that the US is a mission field and that their are now more missionaries coming into the US then going out of it and that this is part of the reason. We as citizen’s aren’t being missionaries to those around us.
As far as alcohol , I believe there is something in there about that. My personal belief is more about drunkenness then drinking. My husband’s grandma drinks a glass of red wine each night before she goes to bed. She doesn’t get drunk or even tipsy or anything like that. I do not see this as a sin.
Now my husband has a friend that is constantly drunk and wakes up and has a beer first thing every morning and doesn’t stop, he can’t hold a job and is a bad father and husband because of it. This to me would be a sin because he is drinking in excess.
Interesting questions and I really enjoy seeing the variety of responses.
Donna B
I agree completely.
Only I am completely against Membership.
@onlygrace09 - why are you against membership?
@onlygrace09 -
Does the denomination matter? No, but truth does. Jesus said His church was to be built upon revelation.
Does it matter to you? Yes. There is only one true church, His church.
Will you always have to be affiliated with the same denomination no matter what? Yes.
Or if you are in a non denominational church, is there a reason why? n/a
have you ever attended or belonged to a church that had rules (either explicit or implicit) about things like the way you dress, what forms of entertainment were or weren’t allowed, etc? Only a church that teaches correct principles and then expects persons to govern themselves.
how did it make you feel? Pretty good. I have my free agency intact.
how did you respond? Positively. Faithfully.
were these rules that would cause non-Christians to avoid your church? No. Not unless they are already filled with the pride of the world.
if your church has rules regarding dress, music, alcohol, etc, do they back it up Biblically? Scripturally? You bet.
Quite a response you have here.
@hallelujah_joshm -
no no no my pastor does show us sin all the time.
and i know the purpose of church i do read my bible lol.
yeah but sometimes you should love the sinner… You want people to feel comfortable and you want them to feel God when they come to your church if they feel like its just rules rules rules and stuff they might not feel loved and it may block out the love of God. We are set apart because of christ and if we are not showing everyone the love God has for them then we are really not helping anything. People dont come to Christ by themselves.. God uses people to communicate that to them and if we scare them way and make them angry because were not doing it through love and not flooding them with rules then god comes off like a stupid rulemaker if that makes sense.
but, also i was wondering why it matters what music you play, as long as its about God and how wonderful he is why should it matter?
Kristen quite the post:) I agree with you one hundred ol’s percent!
I do think you would know that, right:P
@kel7773 -
hey Kel, thanks for writing back.. I hope Kristen doesn’t mind me commenting back here. (Pls let me know!)
I think I know what you mean, you want to be compassionate on the sinner, because they are what you once were. Also you know that they are currently and immediately under the wrath of God (though held back by God’s long suffering), and they could die at any moment and be turned into the fire of Hell.
I would not take this away from you!
We must plead for their souls, and care for them as for any other of God’s creatures! Yet in doing so, we must never lower the holy standard of God’s law.Otherwise as previously mentioned we lose our distinctive. And by the way true holiness, bears the distinctive of true love. Love without holiness, is hatred. I can elaborate on this more later.
Bear in mind though, that man is naturally at enmity with God. Romans 3, says he literally is offended by the holy God who made him. So representing God’s holy character.. is not likely to make them fall over with joy. However we do so, in order that they might see thier sin, and in seeing their depravity, can comprehend the need of the cross of Jesus. They will never understand and obey Jesus, until they realise how proud, arrogant and sinful they really are.. and for those crimes Jesus died. Then they can be grateful for the cross.
I recommend an audio called “Hell’s best kept secret” its free to listen to if you google it.
As for music.. I think that is can be bad.. just like a voicebox can be bad.
Using our voices because we love God is great, but if we hurt people with it, and use God’s name flippantly, then voices are bad.
Worship must be carefully prepared to exalt God, and diminish man. Worship music should always have a low opinion of man.
My thoughts
@hallelujah_joshm - Nope I don’t mind at all
Love reading your comments. you said it so well.
God bless
Denomination doesn’t matter, per se. But it must be a [whole] Bible believing, preaching and teaching church, i.e. based on 2 Corinthians 11:3b, ”the simplicity that is in Christ.” I am currently a member [laborer] of a formerly independent, now null church. I have found my church home and, save for possible unforeseen circumstances, plan to remain planted there; to [ala 2 Corinthians 11:1,] “bear with [my Pastor] a little in [his] folly: and indeed bear with [him]” and his vision for Victory [Temple].
I personally don’t believe overly legalistic religious oversight is warranted. I believe believers should let their consciences, a/null/a the Holy Spirit, be their guides. In that sense, all Biblical caveats ought to be “implicit”. And, inasmuch as life is an open book test, most “explicit” rules should be patently obvious. While Pastors are obligated to properly shepherd their flocks, we sheep will still ultimately be held accountable for ourselves. [See John 16:13, 2 Timothy 2:15, 2 Corinthians 13:5 & 7, et al.] The only real gray area re differing doctrines is in “Abstain[null] from all appearance of evil.” [1 Thessalonians 5:22] See also Romans 14.
Re modern music, you raise a good case in point. The summation of Romans 14, verse 14, states, “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that null any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.” I find it interesting to note that circa 1772 even the old standard “Amazing Grace” was new-null. One has to question, by what criteria do you judge today’s contemporary Christian songs? Perhaps, it is merely an “appearance of evil”? Does not Psalms 40:3 say, “And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.”? And Psalms 149:1, “Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.”? FYI: It is also possible to sing traditional hymns in a trite and/or ritualistic manner. Somewhere between the status quo you laud and the static “(null)” you decry, surely, God has got a plan.
And maybe I’m ignorant, but what exactly are “false null”? Did not Jesus repeatedly say, ”Thy faith hath made thee whole.”? [Matthew 9:22 & 29 , Mark 5:34, Mark 10:52 , Luke 8:48, and Luke 17:19] Surely, this indicates that null, etc. are received according to our faith. Consider also, Mark 9:38-40 and even Matthew 7:21-23.
HAPPY EASTER/RESURRECTION DAY!
Denomination doesn’t matter, per se. But it must be a [whole] Bible believing, preaching and teaching church, i.e. based on 2 Corinthians 11:3b, ”the simplicity that is in Christ.” I am currently a member [laborer] of a formerly independent, now C.O.G.I.C. church. I have found my church home and, save for possible unforeseen circumstances, plan to remain planted there; to [ala 2 Corinthians 11:1,] “bear with [my Pastor] a little in [his] folly: and indeed bear with [him]” and his vision for Victory [Temple].
I personally don’t believe overly legalistic religious oversight is warranted. I believe believers should let their consciences, a/k/a the Holy Spirit, be their guides. In that sense, all Biblical caveats ought to be “implicit”. And, inasmuch as life is an open book test, most “explicit” rules should be patently obvious. While Pastors are obligated to properly shepherd their flocks, we sheep will still ultimately be held accountable for ourselves. [See John 16:13, 2 Timothy 2:15, 2 Corinthians 13:5 & 7, et al.] The only real gray area re differing doctrines is in “Abstain[ing] from all appearance of evil.” [1 Thessalonians 5:22] See also Romans 14.
Re modern music, you raise a good case in point. The summation of Romans 14, verse 14, states, “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.” I find it interesting to note that circa 1772 even the old standard “Amazing Grace” was new-fangled. One has to question, by what criteria do you judge today’s contemporary Christian songs? Perhaps, it is merely an “appearance of evil”? Does not Psalms 40:3say, “And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.”? And Psalms 149:1, “Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.”? And FYI: It is also possible to sing traditional hymns in a trite and/or ritualistic manner. Somewhere between the status quo you laud and the static ["CCM"] you decry, surely, God has got a plan.
And maybe I’m ignorant, but what exactly is are “false healings”? Did not Jesus repeatedly say, ”Thy faith hath made thee whole.”? [Matthew 9:22 & 29, Mark 5:34, Mark 10:52, Luke 8:48, Luke 17:19] Surely, this indicates that healings, etc. are received according to our faith. Consider also, Mark 9:38-40 and even Mark 9:38-40 and even Matthew 7:21-23.
HAPPY EASTER/RESURECTION DAY!
P.S. My apologies again for the problem I seem to be having posting this in tact.
@hallelujah_joshm - i 100 percent understand what you are saying C:
But, really, all God wants is to love them, so we should love them and accept them no matter if they accept jesus or not. If we treat them not as how God would treat them then it creates a barrier, and were not doing what we are called to do. Usually if you show love and loyalty and respect to everyone and be joyful when doing it sometime they will ask you about why your so happy which you can tell them about jesus. Or they will gladly listen and take in what you say. If we act like we are going to heaven and that were “holy through Jesus” then what kind of message is that sending? They dont want to hear about how good we are or that we are going to heaven and they are not it creates arrogance. Getting through to people is by being the least. I truly believe that too. If we dont brag about the gift we have recieved people are more likely to feel welcome. NO one is perfect, noone will ever be perfect, somewhere in romans it says we are nothing but filthy rags compared to God.
yeah i suppose but, just because its jesus rap or Jesus rock or Jesus country or jesus whatever does not mean they are downsizing God, because i have found some pretty amazing music. I guess this comes down to personal preference when it really should be about what is being sang/rapped. One of the pastors of my church is steele croswhite and he is one of the most passionate guys i have ever met in my life, he leads worship and he rocks out and one of his songs is psalm 18 that whole chapter and i don’t get why the style of music would create beautiful lyrics to be bad. When i look at music i do prefer rock but, i listen to everything and i mean everything even Beethoven, I don’t go by what the music sounds like but i go by lyrics, well i mean there are some songs that i just love how they sound but, mostly i listen to things that have good meaning. Its really how you portray things and think about things, if you already have an opinion that rock music is not allowed (even when singing about God) or that rap music is not allowed or acoustic music is not allowed, or organ hymn style stuff is not allowed then its of course gonna taint your perspective. God smiles whenever something is signing or speaking or thinking wonderful beautiful thoughts/words/lyrics, and he smiles bigger when he knows its all for him its not for anyone in the room but Him and all i think he hears is the words not the music.
Sorry if i am being offensive in any way and dont be afraid to say hey thats a little hurtful etc.