June 29, 2009
-
What’s So Frightening About
What’s So Frightening About a Veiled Woman?
Nothing strikes fear in the Western psyche like a piece of cloth on a woman’s head.
What are your thoughts? Is it hate? Fear?
Why do some people hate me right away when they see me just because of cloth on my head?
Comments (84)
I’m guessing that they feel you’re judging them and that you believe you are more righteous than women without headcoverings.
I believe people are conditioned by media to believe this is a sign or symbol of the people who terrorized our nation. Sad but true. And somehow we believe through women’s rights or some loop-hole in religion that we’ve been emancipated from cloaking ourselves. To some it seems antiquated. I need to learn more on this tradition myself. We are ignorant. Share with us and break the yoke.
@MrsDarcy_MrsDarcy_MrsDarcy - but see…wouldn’t that be them judging me? They judge that of me without me having said a word…all because I have something on my head.
I Know many believers who cover their heads and many believers who don’t. I never assume that someone is a better believer because they cover their head or don’t cover their head.
@Kristenmomof3 - Yes, they might be judging you, of course. It’s a common human frailty. But since you are the one making a physical show of your piety, they probably believe that you are at least in part doing it to be ‘seen of men’, so to speak, and maybe they think you are trying to get their attention with it. I, personally, usually feel fondly toward women with head coverings, if I know nothing else about them. I’m predisposed to think good things about them. If I got to know her, though, and saw she was making a big deal out of it, my feelings would change.
@poetesshue - There are Jewish women who cover their heads. Christian women who cover their heads. Messianic women who cover. Muslim women who cover…etc.
I can not speak for all women who cover on why they cover.
I can give a few of the reasons
1 cor 11 in the bible
There are verses in the Koran
fulfilling a mitzvah (commandment) that is founded on tzniut (modesty), the most important characteristic of the Bat Yisrael (Daughter of Israel).
A woman completes her attire with head-wear that is impressive in its refinement, and reflects the regal and virtuous character of N’shei Yisrael (Women of Israel). (Mekorot 32:1)
“Strength lies in conforming with the ordinances of the Torah” (Shir HaShirim Rabbah 2:10).
And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful
Surah an-Nur ayah 31
O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw their outergarments (jilbabs) close around themselves; that is better that they will be recognized and not annoyed. And God is ever Forgiving, Gentle.
Surah al-Ahzab ayah 59
Here are a few links too if you want to research it more..
According to the Scriptures: Headcovering
Biblical Headcovering: The Scarf of Hidden Power
Christian Women’s Headcovering Directory
Headcoverings and the Christian Woman
Is a Woman’s Hair Her Only Covering?
Let Her Be Veiled
Modesty and Christian Living in the 90s
My Testimony Regarding the Headcovering
Nigerian Catholics told to be modest
No Such Custom?
On the Covering of Heads
She Maketh Herself Headcoverings
Should Christian Women Wear a Headcovering?
The Biblical Practice of Headcovering
The Christian Modesty
The Christian Veiling
The Headcoverings of Sisters
The Rites of Submission
The Significance of the Christian Woman’s Veiling
The Veil
Women’s Headcovering and the Glory of God
@Kristenmomof3 - Thank you so much for sharing. I am taking it in now.
Why would you even include the Koran,Kristen?
@elainef - It is a reason that some women dress the way that they do. That is why I included it.
Hate is normally derived from fear. So i would say its both.
wonderful post!!!
@Job_One_21 - what is to fear?
@itstimetohavesomefun - thank you
Nothing. But people tend to fear what they don’t understand.
@Job_One_21 - that is one reason I love to bring stuff out in the open and talk about it. But then people accuse me of judging or looking down on people who think different then me, which is never what my goal is. My goal is to bring out why it is done. I would never say that someone is not saved because they do or don’t wear something on their head. etc.
Just rambling
Yeah, that’s why i think it’s so important for us, as Christians, to be careful of how we talk about this stuff. That’s why i’ve stopped making informative posts lately, because i realized how i tended to come across. So i’m taking a break so i can learn how to not come across that way.
Not saying you do come across that way. Haha!! Just rambling, myself.
Check your messages.
those are beautiful pictures, and there’s nothing frightening about a veiled women or you Kristen, so it brings sadness how you are often treated. you certainly don’t deserve it — your modesty is lovely and brings glory to God.
@YouTOme - thank you.
@Kristenmomof3 - you’re welcome. =)
Hi Kristen. I think fear and resentment play large roles in what you feel coming from some who seem to disapprove of your choice to wear a head covering. I’m having trouble getting this into words, but I think that they 1) recognize the moral imperative to dress modestly, but 2) do not wish to carry modesty to the level you have chosen to (or to practice modesty at all) and 3) fear that what you’re doing will somehow be forced upon them against their will.
That’s based on my own history before coming to YHWH through Yahshua. I resented any outward signal that someone strived to practice righteousness. I’m not talking about someone making a show of righteousness, I’m talking about any hint that someone was not willing to indulge themselves in sin like I was doing. Looking back, I realize that even though I boasted loudly that I could have cared less about being righteous or what God thought of me, my conscience, as numb as it was, still pricked at me deep down inside when I saw someone trying to please Father, and I resented such people for provoking my conscience to do that to me. It was subconscious, but it was there.
Personally, I wish all women would undertake to exercise a much greater level of modesty than we see as the norm in our society. It seems that women have been convinced that by inspiring lust in men, they increase their self worth. Frankly, I don’t think most women even understand what modesty means these days, and probably think they already dress modestly, but speaking as a man, I can tell you honestly that I don’t find that to be the case at all, even among women who identify themselves as “christian”. Any type of clothing that exposes a woman’s figure is able to plant a seed of temptation in a man’s mind, and that’s not serving the kingdom. We’re all supposed to avoid putting stumbling blocks in front of our brothers and sisters, and that includes in our manner of dress. Thank you for setting the right example for women who read your entries and women you encounter in person.
Peace be with you and the family, sister in Christ. I’ve been praying for your Grandpa – how is he?
@AOK4WAY - thank you for the wonderful comment and for the prayers for Grandpa.
He is doing really good. He is not driving right now. He doesn’t plan to until after the test that he needs to have done at the hospital on Thursday. I can not see how the sores on his leg are doing because of the medicated wraps that he needs to leave on until Thursday. I just continue to pray for healing of the sores.
@AOK4WAY - I just want to say a few things. First of all, the only reason you give that women should be fully covered in bulky clothing is so that they do not inspire lust in men. What about the men? Why do they have no responsibility for their own lust? I’m not saying that women should all dress in next-to-nothing, but I just don’t understand this. I realize the Old Testament sites this exact reason, but the New Testament is different, and I completely think that men should hold some responsibility to contain their desires. When a woman dresses to accentuate their natural beauty, that is not asking for men to look at her, drool, and need to go take a cold shower.
On the OP, I don’t feel anything toward women that are covered. Not fear, not hate, not admiration. I just…it’s just one other woman that covers herself for whatever personal/spiritual reasons she has, and that’s fine with me.
@SpringingForward - there are New Testament Verse calling women to modesty too not just ones from the Tanakh (Old Testament)
In First Timothy 2:9, we read that women should adorn themselves in “modest apparel.” (Reinforcing what the Torah taught)
Romans 12;1,2 “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world; but be reformed in the newness of your mind, that you may prove what is the good, and the acceptable, and the perfect will of God.”
1 Thessalonians 5:22 From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves. And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you in all things; that your whole spirit, and soul, and body, may be preserved blameless in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Veiled women don’t scare me at all. In fact, they intrigue me. I love the fact that veiling forces one to look at the beauty of a woman’s face, or just eyes, because everything else is covered. It’s fascinating.
it’s neither hate nor fear. it’s disgust that after all the hard work of feminists and modernization and fighters for equality, you would still choose to wear a symbol of oppression and meekness, as though you were somehow less human than men.
Blame the government who helped fund 9/11 and this 8 year long “War on Terror”. They have purposefully frightened the masses by showing them images of suspected “terrorist” and the culture of the middle east. Every time they mention the war or fighting for something, they make a strong emphasis on the words “9/11″, “patriotism”, and “terrorism”. People are just stupid enough to fall for it. >.>
@fatal_is_life - how can you say about fighting for equality and stuff like that then want to deny women the right to dress modestly and veil if they want?
It is not a symbol of Oppression….Many women choose to veil. There are many women of many different religions that believe that their holy book tells them to cover their hair. What is the problem with that? As long as they are not forcing you to why does it bother you? IF they choose to do it? Why show disgust to them for following their beliefs?
Why are so many people all about tolerance and pushing tolerance of homosexuality, tolerance of gay marriage, tolerance of people walking around almost naked etc…but when a woman chooses to dress modestly and cover her head all of a sudden all that tolerance flys out the window and people hate her for it.
And what is wrong with meekness…the bible praises meekness.
I think women who cover are beautiful. I don’t do it, and I probably never will, but I admire the reasoning and the strength behind it.
@xplodinglastbullet - very true…that and pushing the idea that every woman who covers her head needs to be “liberated”
@XDaemonessX - thank you for the wonderful comment
@Kristenmomof3 - Again, more fundamentalist American ideals. These things have been pushed since America helped win WW2. First it was the war on Communism where they felt every nation had to have some kind of democracy. Now it’s the war on terrorists and inconsequentially, the Muslim world. They want to say that the people there are oppressed and that women have no rights, but what they don’t understand it’s all apart of their faith and culture.
For me, truthfully I see a lot of covered women that act better then others, yet they are usually the ones who are more vulgar in their sin. That’s just my experience though. We have several women in our town that wear the small lace headcovering, dresses only, the special hair-do, and they are the rudest, most hateful people I’ve encountered. They belong to our homeschool group, but refuse to speak to those of us not covered, or to let their children play with urs, even though we are strong Christians and I agree with so much of their belief morally-shows that my children aren’t allowed to watch, books they can’t read, etc. And their children are the most hurtful ones on the playground at our homeschool group play dates. Three of their daughters cornered my 7 year old, poured water on her head, pulled her dress over her head, pushed her down and ran away after calling her an idiot. They are just not what I consider to be truly holy women, but they act as if that little piece of fabric makes them better than others.
I know-not all do that, but that’s been my personal experience with them. They don’t frighten me-they anger me. As for Muslim women, I’ve not had any experience with them personally. I think they are oppressed truthfully, that they have no choice on wearing that covering.
@CrunchyMountainMomma - What about all the Muslim women who choose to wear it. The ones who come from liberal families and their mother doesn’t cover but they do. Or the ones who converted and cover. They are single…no family telling them to do this but they do. How are they oppressed?
Also I am very sorry about your expirence with those women in your homeschool group. Covering the head does not excuse their behavior.
I am friends and talk with people weither they cover or not.
Blessings
@Kristenmomof3 - I know that some women do choose to cover. I respect the choice. It’s just a perception I have. I knew an American woman who married a Muslim and he demanded she cover. It was more of a control issue for him than religious belief. And we hear so much from the women who leave Islam, or the countries where covering is practiced widely, so I think for me it’s more of a “I see the activists against it and hear their protests”. Does that make sense?
I do also know a lady online who covers by choice(a Plain friend) and she’s wonderful. Just that personal perception, you know? I actually covered for a time, but we(my husband and I) found we were growing legalistic, so he asked me to stop covering. I felt…………conspicuous when covered. And my mother in law thought it was a hippie fashion statement. LOL.
Hmm, Kristen certainly loves this subject. I’m curious though, this whole modesty thing… what’s your opinion of Chastity Belts? What about Genital Mutilation (that’s ALL about modesty, you know)? What about those “sex blankets” used to keep married coitus good and “modest”?? Perhaps we should go stone those people down at the local topless beach too… is that modesty too?
I’m sorry, but far too many horrible things have been done in the name of “modesty” for us all to just turn a blind eye on the subject….
@Lynnjynh9315 - you are complaining of other things off topic…but have not answered the questions asked.
@AOK4WAY - What about the men?? It is no secret that some women are also visually oriented; I recently read some articles about women their tendencies toward porn, and it was amazing. Religious societies especially want to generalize men and women to such huge degrees that what is possible for one is hardly possible for another. This is partly, I believe, in reaction to mainstream society which nowadays wants to claim that men and women are simply human beings with some anatomical differences, with no emotional and mental contrasts, thus, no gender roles apply. I don’t embrace that philosophy at all, however, neither do can we classify all women and all men in strictly stereotypical categories.
I for instance, am more visual than some women; I will notice and be attracted to a guy with an admirable physique or good looks as easily or more than my husband notices other women’s figures or looks. Since this is a reality for many women, men should also be modest to protect those of us who are visually inclined, not to mention homosexuals and bisexuals who are attracted to those of their own gender. I have repeatedly seen in all circles of religions- Muslim, Christian, Amish, etc.- that of men fitting into today’s society of shorts, short-sleeved shirts, snug pants and T-shirts than accentuate the male form, but their women being required to be shapeless and formless to the point of being hardly recognizable as a woman except that- well, you don’t see men covered like that!
My husband often tells me- and I’ve said this before- I am not responsible for the perversions of other men. If we are attired in a responsible, decent way, those women and men(and people whom we’re not sure are women OR men!) who are so carried away with their lusts will be leering at us regardless what we wear. Pedophiles (perverted sexual attraction toward children) are present in society, yet we do not drape our children in blankets or hide them when we go outside our homes. The Bible instructs us not to be a stumbling block to our brother or sister; nowhere does it say that we will be held responsible for a pervert lusting after us even when we have not solicited by our actions or apparel. (In this case, maybe a lack of apparel!) A brother or sister would be a fellow Christian, someone who is also seeking to guard his or her eyes. Thus, their discretion along with our discretion in dress promotes an atmosphere of respect and mutual righteousness.
My husband and I feel it is necessary to be modest, but the fixation on women as being the only individuals who are called to do so is very unfair.
So long as it is done as an expression of a woman’s choice, it doesn’t frighten me. What does frighten me is that some women do so not out of choice but out of their own fear.
Granted, that can be said to be religious extremism taken too far, and so it may be. But extremism IS terrifying. I know perfectly well that not all cultures/religions are represented by the repressive elements among them, but those elements do scare me.
@Kristenmomof3 - that’s like saying, “how can you say about fighting for equality
and stuff like that then want to deny people the right to be slaves and get whipped for not following orders if they want?”
why don’t you answer the question yourself.
I also think my above post somewhat explains why people seem to fear/react to Muslims and the hijab, niquab, etc. more than to those groups such as the Amish. (where I grew up) The Amish have strict rules about modesty and wearing certain clothes, but it was also stringently applied to the men. Pants were loose fitting, shirts were button-downs- no tees, polos, etc, there were absolutely no shorts allowed, no going shirtless, no ‘worldly’ hairstyles, and long-sleeve occasions applied to men and women equally. On the other hand, if I am correct, dress requirements for Muslim men forbid only a few things such as sleeve-less tees and shorts above the knee. Since men are the leaders and decision makers of both religions, there is a pretty stark contrast. One religion exemplifies modesty as something that applies to humankind, not to women specifically, and calls for a sacrifice and separation from not only the women who submit to male leadership, but applies to the male leaders themselves. The other seems to say that while women are supposed to be covered and hidden and discreet, it is fine for the men to fit into society and not be covered as their female counterparts. Even the argument that ‘many of them choose to cover’ seems a little inconsistent when the question could be asked: where are the men who ‘choose’ to cover? That very noticable difference is one that I was taken aback by as a teenager in an airport terminal, before I knew what Muslim dress requirements entailed… I saw a man Muslim man in a polo and knee length shorts who could have been any other guy, except that he was accompanied by a woman in the hijab. It felt a bit disturbing, as I was accustomed to the whole ultra-modest theory (being Amish at the time) but was not accustomed to having men exempt fom the principle of modesty.
I am not saying that the Amish are more right than the Muslims, or that every Muslim couple who I just described is clearly a product of gender discrimination. It is simply to say that it may be a reason why people are more fearful/hateful of the Islamic community than the Amish community, as described in the YouTube video.
Another factor may be that Muslim women do sometimes get violently treated; beaten, etc, for not wearing the hijab. Since the Amish are very conscientious about being totally non-violent, that may play a factor into why people think Muslim women are more oppressed or forced than Amish women. Violence does occasionally occur among the Amish, but it is hardly ever related to religous disagreements and never, ever is physical violence used by leaders to enforce rules within the church. A woman who refuses to veil will be excommunicated and asked to leave the community, but they usually leave before taking the veiling off.
@fatal_is_life - so in other words….you are only tolerant of things that you agree with?
When a woman chooses to dress modestly and cover her head all of a sudden all that tolerance goes out the window because you do not like it.
@Kristenmomof3 - I agree that if people are preaching tolerance, then someone who chooses to dress modestly should be extended tolerance. In fact, sometimes I’m amused at the way people are calling for a ‘tolerance’ to dress immodestly; “I can wear what I want,” but suddenly, when it’s modest apparel, the right to ‘wear what I want’ disappears.
But, many religions have historically been oppressive towards individuals within their circles for not dressing a certain way. I think people easily associate that with a modest person and think ‘oppression’. It’s a natural reaction born from ignorance. a little like we would react if we’d walk into a rich person’s home and all their servants would be African-American- even if it was just a coincidence! That’s why it is so important that we let our happiness and joy in who we are show, and choose to shine. Also, in our discussions with people, we need to show the kind of intelligence and personal belief that proves to them we’re not mindless sheep who are doing what we do out of obligation or ignorance.
@mikenpeg - thank you for this wonderful comment. You say it all so well.
@Kristenmomof3 - so you’re saying… you’re tolerant of people who actually want to be slaves?
when someone refuses to accept the gift of freedom they have been given – probably by a god, if he exists – and bites the hand that feeds them… they don’t deserve tolerance.
@fatal_is_life - Thank you for admitting are intolerant of those different then you. Not sure why you wanted to be my friend on here then
@Kristenmomof3 - thank you for admitting you support slavery.
@fatal_is_life - I support a woman’s right to be a keeper of the home. I support a woman’s right to wear a burka. I support a woman’s right to wear a veil. I support a woman’s right to wear hijab. I support a woman’s right to dress as modestly as she wants.
You calling it slavery does not slavery make it. Call it what you want….it is just your bias and intolerance showing through.
@Kristenmomof3 - okay. whatever you say. you NOT calling it slavery doesn’t change the fact that what you’re saying is that you basically support people being willingly enslaved.
@fatal_is_life - It is not being enslaved. A person being able to choose how they dress is freedom…it doesn’t become slavery just because it is more clothes then you like to wear.
@Kristenmomof3 - okay, sure… it’s freedom to be enslaved. gotcha.
I wear a head covering and I get looks. You see them do it and most try not to be seen doing it. Some are nice and helpful, some walk away. But they do fear because they don’t understand. You fear what you do not know.
I’m just a regular american christian woman who decided that I needed to follow God’s word on covering. This doesn’t mean I think I’m better than anyone, it’s just that God covicted me of it here of late. And he says that to whom is given- more is required. Well he gave me the knowledge of knowing to cover my head and so therefore I must. he didn’t turn away from me and not listen to me when I didn’t cover, but now he’s let me know it’s important enough to do- so I do
If he wants someone else to know the scriptures on this and do his word he will bring it to their knowledge.
I love your blog and I am going to go ahead and read through the responses now.
Hugs to you friend and God Bless
@TodaysJourney@momaroo - Thank you for the wonderful comment.
Blessings and peace
Aaugh, couldn’t watch the whole video. Damn, that bald muslim woman is annoying. Go back to the hijab.
@SpringingForward - ”First of all, the only reason you give that women should be fully covered in bulky clothing is so that they do not inspire lust in men.”
Isn’t that reason enough? You speak of the “Old Testament” and the “New Testament”, so I would assume that you have some knowledge of the Word of Truth. Did you know, then, that you sin against Christ himself when you inspire temptation and wound someone’s conscience?
And thus, sinning against the brethren, and wounding their conscience when it is weak, ye sin against Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:12)
If a bird flies over my head, I can’t do anything about it, and I’m not responsible for it. But if a bird lands on my head, it’s only because I allowed it to do so. There’s a difference between being tempted and acting on temptation. Neither men nor women can prevent themselves from being tempted. But they do have a choice in how they will react to it when it happens. When men are are tempted but resist the impulse to act upon it, they are taking responsibility for their own lust. Of course, all that usually happens internally, so it isn’t readily apparent to an outside observer. I assure you as man that you are constantly surrounded by men in just that position when you’re out in public. That’s not fair.
“What about the men? Why do they have no responsibility for their own lust?” This echoes the attitude of earth’s first murderer Cain. “Am I my brother’s keeper?” You’ll have to show me where I said or even implied that men bear no responsibility in this equation. I didn’t say or imply anything of the kind. My entire statement is based on the supposition that all men will be held accountable for their own actions. But you’ve implied that you bear no responsibility for any unwanted effect you may have on men through the manner of dress you choose for yourself. You speak of men taking responsibility for their own desires, but Yahshua our saviour speaks of taking responsibility for each other. He also makes it clear that people will stumble and be held accountable for it, but that the person who gave them occasion to stumble will be worse off than they will be, and will be held even more accountable for it.
Woe unto the world because of occasions of stumbling! for it must needs be that the occasions come; but woe to that man through whom the occasion cometh! (Matthew 18:7)
Based on your unkind caricarture of men as incontinent, drooling animals, it seems that you disapprove of all the drooling you imagine is going on. But if a man is doing all that drooling as a result of having seen you in all your “accentuated” “natural beauty”, then are you not the one who planted that seed in his mind? And if you, by exercising your freedom to dress as provocatively as you wish for the sake of “accenting your natural beauty”, cause a man to sin, whether mentally or physically, have you not brought forth corrupt fruit?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. (Matthew 7:17)
If I have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic, how much of a friend am I if I regularly consume alcohol in his presence, thereby placing his recovery in jeopardy? Would he be responsible for taking a drink if he were to do so? Yes. But would he be solely responsible? No, because I would have been the one who placed him in that jeopardy. In the same manner, if a man acts upon an impulse that is inspired by a provocatively dressed woman, he surely bears the responsibility for his actions. But he is not alone in bearing the responsibility for it. And wouldn’t it be better if we all worked to lift each other up rather than placing each other in situations that require an inward struggle to do what is right?
Regarding “accentuating” one’s natural beauty, the natural will one day die and rot. Is it worth the investment of time, energy and money to “accentuate” a future corpse? There is also a spiritual body, and you can’t have it both ways. You can’t serve the natural and the spiritual at the same time.
“… If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:44)
I hope you will choose to sow spiritually so that you may reap eternal life. Your body will die. Bad investment.
For he that soweth unto his own flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth unto the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap eternal life. (Galatians 6:8)
@mikenpeg - Yes, I’ve read an entry of yours that was very similar somewhere else a few months ago, I believe. I perceive that you accuse me unfairly. I certainly agree that men should also dress modestly. I was addressing Kristen’s post regarding women wearing head coverings, not attire in general.
“My husband often tells me- and I’ve said this before- I am not responsible for the perversions of other men.”
That’s true. But is it perversion for a man to react mentally with desire when he is visually exposed to a woman who is not making an effort to conceal her figure? After all, a woman’s figure was designed to be attractive to a man. That’s not perversion, that’s natural. And if you are not responsible for what you and hubby call a man’s “perversions”, why have you attempted to hold men responsible for your own? By your own admission, you are visual by nature and react to a man’s figure in similar fashion.
You’re free to dress as you please, but with that freedom comes responsibility.
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to the weak. For if a man see thee who hast knowledge sitting at meat in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be emboldened to eat things sacrificed to idols? For through thy knowledge he that is weak perisheth, the brother for whose sake Christ died. And thus, sinning against the brethren, and wounding their conscience when it is weak, ye sin against Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:9-12)
Regarding pedophiles and infant/toddler/childrens’ attire, you’re right. People don’t make any attempt to dress their children in an appropriate manner or to protect them from pedophiles. What used to be a parent’s job is now left to the government. Foolish, selfish generation. Instead, they attempt to make little carbon copies of themselves, dressing little children like adults. I’m old enough to remember when parents were neither so naive nor so selfish. Children were dressed as children, not like miniature Madonnas and Fabios (yeah, I know, I’m old).
What you fail to recognize, especially apparent in your statement that you’re not responsible for people lusting after you, is that there is a collective, accumulative nature to the problem. It isn’t only the way you dress, or the way you look, nor is it the way any one person dresses (for the most part). It’s a matter of constant bombardment with this kind of stimulus, and the resulting hyperstimulation which springs from it. We are no longer speaking of human beings who are in their normal mental states. Sexual imagery is everywhere, and humans are bound to be effected by it.
Whether you choose to accept it or not, there is no middle ground, no gray area. You can choose to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. Given the disastrous proportaions of the problem, I don’t think it unreasonable to suggest extreme measures be undertaken by those who choose the latter.
@fatal_is_life - You are either enslaved by the world and it’s god (satan) or you are God’s child and listen to his law.
I’m the only one in my family who is a believer and follows the Bible. I believe when God said to cover my head for his order , he meant it. So I do.
Slavery is having a master of some kind- Weather it be a good master or a bad one. I follow the one in heaven that is good. He is my father and I do as my father asks. Did you not listen to your father when you were growing up (and your mother) Well then if you did, you were enslaved. Do you listen to your boss at work, then you are enslaved. I happen to listen to God (my father-who tells me things for my good) and if that means I’m a slave because (I choose) to listen to my heavenly father, **So be it**
Oh and all the comments on here about the men not dressing modestly. ha! for 1 that’s their business , I’m listening to what God told (me) to do. and 2 I know a whole lot of christian men who do dress modestly. long sleeved shirts (or at least to the elbow) loose fitting pants, short hair and the works. I come from a family where my grandfather was a pastor and believe you me, men dress like they are supposed to (Godly) God fearing men. They try not to temp women either.
So lets get to the heart of the matter here. If you’re Godly, you know what he wants from you and how you are to talk, walk , act and dress-man or woman!!
@TodaysJourney@momaroo - you people are nuts.
@fatal_is_life - thank you I feel honored to be a nut. You should get to know me, You’d call me a buckeye -for 1 I’m from ohio so I am a buckeye and 2 they’re worthless.(as you must see us) But I am a riot. I’d have you rolling on the floor. Have a wonderfully Blessed day
Hugs and God Bless
@TodaysJourney@momaroo - WHOOMP! There it is! Having read this and subsequent comments you’ve left, I just want to thank you for showing us, along with Kristen, what true beauty looks like. What better reason for doing anything, including wearing a head covering, than to please our Eternal Father? It isn’t the way a piece of fabric looks on a woman’s head, it’s that motivation to please father that radiates beauty. Heartwarming, uplifting, beautiful.
@Kristenmomof3 - That still doesn’t answer the question: Why is the responsibility of lust always thrust upon the woman and not the man? Even though Christ points to men who “lust in their hearts,” those who admonish women to cover their heads almost always use “In order to spare our brothers from lust” as a justification — such justifications are used to force women to cover, head-to-toe with veiled eye, in layers of clothing in hottest deserts, where to even show your ankle can be a death sentence. Again — you know I will be the first to speak up for the right of women in free societies to do as they please, but one must not forget those women who do NOT live free and must obey the word of their husbands, fathers or brothers, or risk death.
@AOK4WAY - I’m sorry if you felt accused. My intention was not to explain away many of the things you are saying- I believe them too. I fail to see where the things I said attacked you personally.
First of all, I did NOT say men are not attracted to women physically, thus women need not care how they dress. I did say that women are ALSO attracted to men, thus, men bear a responsibility in how they present themselves as well. This is not a perversion, I agree. However, the ‘natural’ thing you speak of is not only men to women- it is one sex being physically attracted to another sex. If it is not “perversion, but natural’ for a man to be attracted to a woman’s figure, then please do not try to tell me that I am perverted by being attracted to a shirtless man with a perfect physique– which you did. My point in saying that I am not responsible for perverted men’s lusts is simply this: a normal man will not look lustfully at a woman who is covered, a perverted man will. My husband’s view is not that I am not responsible for ANY man’s reaction,(I am) it is that I am not responsible for the sin of someone who is lusting after me simply because I am of the opposite sex, not because they can see anything that feeds their imagination. For instance: I once accompanied a group of young people in a maximum security prison to sing; throughout this time, there were individuals (likely in prison for perverted acts) who were catcalling, leering, and making obscene comments about the girls. These girls were, as myself, all dressed in long, modest dresses, and had head coverings on. It was embarrassing, but in no way did it give us reason to feel we were exposing ourselves, because these men simply recognized that we were women- thus, we were objects of their lust. This is not normal, this is perverted. Along with that, when I was using children as an example, I was speaking of children in general, not some of the examples of Renaissance cherubs we see sometimes. Children who ARE dressed, such as my own small son, will still be attractive to pedophiles who lust after children; a pervert is fully capable of undressing anyone mentally.
My admission about being visually inclined also did not state that I am holding every man I see responsible for every thought I may or may not have; nor do I feel that every man around me must dress in extreme ways. I was speaking more of- perhaps a guy in short shorts and no shirt; equal maybe to a woman in a bikini.(My husband and I would never dress in any of those ways, and my husband would feel a responsibility equal to my resonsibility. My statement was meant to show that today’s society of not hesistating to show more skin than clothes is NOT solely a woman problem, it is a human problem. I am also not too proud to admit that no matter what a man is wearing or not wearing, I am responsible to guard my eyes and thoughts that is equal to the responsibilty of dressing in a way that makes it easy for my brothers.
I do recall saying in my post that we Christians bear both the responsibility to guard our eyes AND the responsibility to dress modestly. Therefore, your accusation about me denying this responsibility is absolutely unfounded. To label me thus simply because I feel that covering our bodies applies to more than just women is extremely unfair.
And, for the record, I will stand out on any street, any supermarket, and among mainstream society for the way I dress. If you call wearing only skirts and blouses/shirts and modest, full-length dresses shirking my responsibility and causing men to lust then, well, maybe I should be estranged from society altogether.
I actually think our opinions and beliefs are a lot closer to one and the same that we may think.
I think its fear and misunderstanding, especially where I am at. I live in Oklahoma, and there aren’t many women at all that cover for any reason. I get a lot of stares, but thankfully, nothing rude as of yet. But men of all types are far more gentlemenly to me
Headcovering and modesty was MY choice, I did discuss it with my husband, as it could affect him too (questions, stares etc) and he told me that I can do whatever God is leading me to do
I am not trying to be rude, and I respect everyone’s view, but so often on blogs/comments the attack goes out to “What about the men?!” I am responsible for myself, I will maintain my modesty so I do not encourage sin. I do what God has led me to do, if a man decides to sin even though I am covered sufficiently, that is his problem not mine. Should men dress more modestly? Sure! But its not my place to complain about it when women’s modesty is discussed. There are some Muslim men who dress modestly, though they might be hard to find here in the U.S. I think the problem lies with more of the younger crowd (though I am aware that men of all ages dress immodestly) with the tight tees and pants that are in style. Yes, men’s modesty is an issue, but they have to be convicted about it (without my nagging LOL!
) through their faith or conscience.
My boys are allowed to wear longer shorts, that go down to the knee. I do make sure that there pants are a looser fit. If my husband puts on something that is too tight, like pants that have shrunk (or he has gained a little weight! lol) I speak up and let him know that I don’t think its appropriate. He and I have that kind of relationship, where he is thankful that I speak up instead of just letting him walk out of the house with something like that.
@AOK4WAY - ”That’s true. But is it perversion for a man
to react mentally with desire when he is visually exposed to a woman
who is not making an effort to conceal her figure? After all, a woman’s
figure was designed to be attractive to a man.”
But modesty is largely a cultural issue. Right now I am getting quite fat with life, and so I am dressed in a loose tank top (the only one left that’ll fit over my big ol’ baby belly) and shorts to swelter through the mid-summer heat. When I lived in Texas there was nothing unusual about seeing the Pastor’s wife at the grocery store in shorts, a tank top and flip-flops. It was simply understood that, when it’s hot, you dress however is appropriate to keep cool, rather than appealing to the rules of modesty set by cooler climes. Now if any man finds me attractive with a child attempting to poke his foot through my belly button, simply because I’m in an “immodest” top, is this my fault for my dress, or his fault for judging me by his standards as “revealing” myself to him? What of Mennonite men — should non-believing women be forced to shawl and cover in their presense, regardless of the cultural norms of that location? There’s just no easy answer and, in my opinion, no one has the right to simply look at a woman’s dress and judge her immodest. Modesty is more about the intent of the heart than the reaction it creates in others — it is a matter of charity more than one of chastity.
@tkmuskrat - Thanks for your input. It’s great to hear from another woman, and I am inspired that you and your husband recognize the two-way street of the modesty issue. It has bothered my husband for years that there are so many blogs, articles, etc about modesty that target the “woman problem”, instead of making it a “human problem” ; perhaps it is on these ‘women’s modesty’ sites that people like us actually ever have the opportunity to speak about the men’s part in it. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a post on ‘men’s modesty’, come to think of it.
It’s a little like the flip side argument of lust or impure thoughts…more common among men, and at one time, it was considered something no women ever struggle with. That has been proven otherwise; women don’t feel as free to talk about it because it always seems to be ‘just the men’ who struggle. But I never felt that just because it was always hailed as a ‘man’s problem’ that I get off the hook and am free to have whatever thoughts I want. I am as responsible to keep a pure mind as any man.
@GermanWrench - The issue of male modesty has been greatly discussed in the comments. I agree with the need for men to also dress modestly. My husband dresses modest as well.
@AOK4WAY - thank you. You are kind. God Bless
It was interesting to read the comments. You received a number of reactions to your question. For myself, as long as veiling is by choice of the wearer, why IS there any issues? Those whose exposure to different cultures is negative, will have a negative reaction to whatever it is that makes that difference. As with anything that is outside someone’s “norm”, what they don’t understand makes people uneasy.
Great post!! They’re jealous of you for your beauty and your loyalty to God
@GermanWrench - You’ve just made the argument of a moral relativist. With all due respect, it is disingenuous and invalid. Modesty is a moral issue, not a cultural one. Modesty is undertaken for the sake of those around us. It is not undertaken for the sake of conformity with a corrupt society, neither is it defined by comparison with it. For example, a man or woman who walks around in a bikini bottom on a nudist beach may not rightly be considered to be dressed modestly, even though he or she is certainly covered to a greater extent than the majority of people around them. Modesty is not defined in comparative or relative terms. Modesty is defined by its intent and outcome.
The rules of comfort and convenience may be set by climate, but the rules of modesty are not. If you dress in such a manner that any part of your body is visible, then you, by definition, have indeed revealed it. It isn’t a matter of whether or not he “thinks” you revealed it to him. If he can see it, it is revealed, and you are the responsible party for your attire. Regarding your question about Mennonite men, it’s a sad commentary on our society that we should be discussing whether or not women should be ‘forced” to dress modestly, rather than doing it voluntarily out of respect for themselves and others around them.
I’ve been around the block enough times to know that many women regard their sexuality as a source of power over men. And in many cases, they’re right to an extent. But there are also men who regard this misuse of the beauty given women by their Creator as cheap, disrespectful, and ugly. I am one of those men. I stand in awe of the beauty of woman, and I find it worse than distasteful to see it being used for nothing more than eye-candy and meat. I mourn for women who do not understand the great worth of this gift they are given or the responsibility that comes with it.
On the other hand, there are women who are aware of the tremendous power they have been endowed with, and they choose to wield it responsibly, in the manner that was decreed for it by the Creator who endowed them with it. They are willing to absorb the brunt of society’s scorn and derision for the sake of their fellow man and the sake of their own consciences toward God. And there are men whose hearts are warmed by these displays of modesty, which are really displays of power. One kind of woman exhibits and exploits power indiscriminately, while the other exerts control over that power. REAL power is the ability to CONTROL power. And that’s a beautiful thing. Thank you, Kristen, TodaysJourney, tkmuskrat, and all you other women who show us all the kind of respect and love and beauty that right-minded men truly appreciate.
Peace to all reading.
I think they’re afraid because they don’t quite understand your culture or why you cover yourself. People always fear the unknown.
I think that people fear or judge women who veil, wear burquas, etc. because they wonder whether or not the woman HAS been given a choice. I think statistically, if people could even figure the numbers, the women who choose to veil versus those who must would be in the minority (speaking on a global level). People who comment on your blog can generally agree as long as you are given a choice, you may wear what you want, right? They just want to ensure there IS a choice given.
You dress as you do because you believe God’s called you to do so, which is a happy choice for you–the freedom to wear what you believe God wants you to. And yet there are those who cannot choose in Muslim countries. People like Marjane Satrapi (Iranian author of Persepolis) who was forced to wear more and more headcoverings during the revolution and who wanted women to have the choice to wear what they wished. People who do not have particular religious convictions in regards to clothing but who are forced to behave as if they do, when they’d love to be wearing capris and a t-shirt because it’s so hot outside.
I think that women want to feel both comfortable and beautiful–some get that from covering; some from being lifted of the burden of covering who did not choose it. I’m not advocating anything obscene or disgusting, but there is far more than one definition of modesty in the world today, and I think it would be terribly difficult to find one that everyone agreed upon, even among Christian or Muslim groups.
Also, I think it is important to remember another thing—there are high rates of domestic violence in many Muslim countries where women are required to cover. And a burqua or long sleeves/pants or even a headscarf covers scars and bruises that may have otherwise be seen and dealt with accordingly by the law. I am not saying that there is general violence against all women who veil, but it can be an enabling factor for abuse.
@SimplyNita - but she’s not even wearing the niqab
@AOK4WAY - You’re talking about something other than modesty. The modesty I’m talking about is the type provoked by charity — the desire to act kindly and compassionately towards others. C.S. Lewis described modesty in Mere Christianity in cultural terms — using the idea that a society in which clothing is undesired might be just as “modest” as a society in which women are admonished to cover head to toe — and if, for instance, a woman did cover herself head-to-toe in a society without clothing, she would in fact be acting IMMODESTLY by drawing attention towards herself and her body in a way which the people of that society are unaccustomed to.
This is why I say modesty is determined by culture more so than universal rule; because those rules of modesty in one society might not be appropriate for other societies. It’s not a matter of relativism, but of cultural differences which are obvious to anyone who takes the time to observe them. A village in the heart of Papua New Ghinea, untouched by modernity, will naturally have differing ideas of modesty than what you or I would consider modest, and as a matter of charity it would in fact be more modest to conform to their ideas in order to not draw attention to ourselves. It is far more immodest, in my opinion, to draw attention to ones’ self unnecessarily. Does that mean we ought to conform to the most extreme of society? No, because it is still considered modest in this society to cover ones’ self and not bear midrifts or breasts (except for breastfeeding, a whole other issue), or to wear dresses. My point is not that Godly women should in no way attempt to differ from society, but that Christian women should conform to the idea of modesty for the society in which they live. In our society, that means one-piece bathing suits, pants and shorts below the knee, dresses, covering tops, etc.
I dress in such a way as to provide both comfort and cover. I’m in the military and so wear a uniform during the day, and off-duty wear usually sweats or jeans and t-shirts, though I’ve worn dresses more lately for comfort; I do not cover my head “religiously” (no pun intended) but do so on ocassion, when I feel the desire to. Frankly, though, I feel covering draws undo attention to myself and so often refrain unless I’m going to church or Hebrew school. I do not feel my dress is any less modest than those who refrain from pants and cover their heads; both they and I have the same goal, merely different ideas of how to accomplish it, and I fully support their right and ability to pursue their ends.
@GermanWrench - I understand your premise and argument, but I must continue to disagree. Christians are not called to conform in the name of charity. In point of fact, we are warned against conformity with the world.
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service. And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. (Romans 12:1-2)
C.S. Lewis and other authors are not the final authority in spiritual matters, and frequently err. The people of YHWH are not to conform to the customs of strangers. After the Israelites had been delivered from Egypt, before they entered into the land of Canaan, they received the following warning:
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out from before you; and the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land vomiteth out her inhabitants. Ye therefore shall keep my statutes and mine ordinances, and shall not do any of these abominations; neither the home-born, nor the stranger that sojourneth among you; (for all these abominations have the men of the land done, that were before you, and the land is defiled); that the land vomit not you out also, when ye defile it, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. For whosoever shall do any of these abominations, even the souls that do them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore shall ye keep my charge, that ye practise not any of these abominable customs, which were practised before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am Jehovah your God. (Leviticus 18:24-30)
If you examine the verses preceding those above, you’ll find that what is being discussed is the uncovering of nakedness for the most part. God’s people were soon to enter a new land, inhabited by a people whose customs were not in keeping with the decrees of God. They were warned not to conform to those customs, but rather to keep his decrees. Perhaps C.S. Lewis missed these chapters?
When thou art come into the land which Jehovah thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. (Deuteronomy 18:9)
No, what you and C.S. Lewis are describing is social conformity, not modesty. Followers of the Way are not to conform, but to shine as an example in a world of darkness.
I understand that your intentions with regard to your dress are basically honorable, and I think that in itself will be evident to those around you. I do believe, however, that you’ve been misled by proponents of a relativistic philosophy of morality which negates certain absolutes in the Word of Truth. The decrees and commandments of our Eternal Father are not subject to suspension or annulment due to geographical relocation or current social norms. The customs being discussed in Leviticus 18 would apply if we were to find ourselves in Papua, New Guinnea, the bush of Africa, or the Amazonian villages of South America. Children of God are not to adopt the customs of strangers, but to provide an example for those who have never been exposed to His Word.
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a lamp, and put it under the bushel, but on the stand; and it shineth unto all that are in the house. Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 5:13-16)
Peace be with you, soldier. May Eternal Father bless you, and encamp his angels around you, and keep you and your unit from all harm. May he lead you in the paths of Truth and righteousness, and draw you ever closer to himself through his only begotten son Yahshua, the Messiah.
Peace to all reading, and a pleasant evening.
Kristen
Your posts on modesty are among the best posts I’ve ever read on the subject and I congratulate you for your fearless approach on the matter.
I’ve recently done a post on my blog “Love Poems” as a Clue to the Nature of Man’s/Woman’s sexual desires and the Importance of Modesty (an excerpt from a very informative book) in which the “unsatiable” nature of sexual desires in men and women is discussed, yet it distinguishes bet the different forms of this desire in men and women.i.e., in women the natural desire to look beautiful and to attract the attention of others (men usually) and to capture their hearts because of her beauty, and in men an innate instict which provokes them to seek more and more beauty (in women usually).
Then its only reasonable that if women do not cover their beauty which is much provocative for men then men shall desire it (even though men are also instructed to guard their eyes and not to look at what the Lo-rd forbade them look at.) –As Hajar Zamzam Ismail so rightly points out “the fact that even happily married individuals sometimes stray (and I must add here – even though some men sometimes have the most beautiful wives and they still stray–) is a sign of this.”
Most women might say that this is not fair because they dont intend to dress in a way to provoke men (and I am sure a majority of them are greatly honest about what they say), but then natural science tells us that this strong instinct in men is there and has always been there, which is of course not an evil instinct, as it would lead to much good (marriage and children) if it is under control and used where it should be used.
heres an excerpt from that book
…. the reason why the…. command to cover is exclusive to women is because the desire to show off and display one’s self is a particular trait of women. She is the hunter in the domination of the hearts of men and man is the prey, whereas man is the hunter in the domination of the body of women and she is the prey. A woman’s desire to display herself comes from this essence of the hunter. It is the female instinct which, because of its particular nature, wishes to capture hearts and imprison the male. Thus, the deviation begins with the female instinct (even though this instinct may be an innocent one according to the woman) and therefore the command to cover was issued.
Kristen I would love to discuss the aforementioned book with someone and to look at it from different perspectives.
send me a note if you think you might have enough time to read it and discuss it through your/my blog–I would think that it will prove much productive.
I’ll continue to pray for your grandpa. hope that our dear Lo-rd heals all those in need of healing.
Eli
@AOK4WAY - Based on your unkind caricarture of men as incontinent, drooling animals, it seems that you disapprove of all the drooling you imagine is going on. But if a man is doing all that drooling as a result of having seen you in all your “accentuated” “natural beauty”, then are you not the one who planted that seed in his mind? And if you, by exercising your freedom to dress as provocatively as you wish for the sake of “accenting your natural beauty”, cause a man to sin, whether mentally or physically, have you not brought forth corrupt fruit?
I do not perceive men as drooling animals, nor did I say anything of that manner. I realize that women have a responsibility. I also realize that men have a responsibility. You had not mentioned men anywhere or their responsiblities in this matter – that’s what I was commenting on. I’m not advocating women to dress in tiny little skirts that barely cover their butts or low tanktops thta show off cleavage. And on the other side, I wasn’t puttnig down women that cover themselves, like Kristin. I don’t agree that we must do that. But I do admire her for doing that and sticking to her beliefs. All I wanted to mention is that it is not just women. Men are responsible for their reactions to women just as women are for their reactions to men. That is all.
@AOK4WAY - Based on your unkind caricarture of men as incontinent, drooling animals, it seems that you disapprove of all the drooling you imagine is going on. But if a man is doing all that drooling as a result of having seen you in all your “accentuated” “natural beauty”, then are you not the one who planted that seed in his mind? And if you, by exercising your freedom to dress as provocatively as you wish for the sake of “accenting your natural beauty”, cause a man to sin, whether mentally or physically, have you not brought forth corrupt fruit?
I do not perceive men as drooling animals, nor did I say anything of that manner. I realize that women have a responsibility. I also realize that men have a responsibility. You had not mentioned men anywhere or their responsiblities in this matter – that’s what I was commenting on. I’m not advocating women to dress in tiny little skirts that barely cover their butts or low tanktops thta show off cleavage. And on the other side, I wasn’t puttnig down women that cover themselves, like Kristin. I don’t agree that we must do that. But I do admire her for doing that and sticking to her beliefs. All I wanted to mention is that it is not just women. Men are responsible for their reactions to women just as women are for their reactions to men. That is all.
@AOK4WAY -
what you say makes so much sense.
You words on modesty are a blessing to read.
Peace
@helpthetruth - Thank you. And yours are both perceptive and enlightening. Most importantly, they are biblically sound. For generations, the truth of predation of men by women has been swept under the rug, perverted and twisted until men alone were believed to be predators in this regard. Yet another example of how the adversary employs deception to corrupt individuals, society, and mankind. Scripture makes it abundantly clear that man, when acting upon a lustful impulse, is doing so as the result of having been captivated by woman, who acts as predator by means of her dress, mannerisms, and speech. Peace to you also.
@SpringingForward - But you did make just such an implication, friend. ”When a woman dresses to accentuate their natural beauty, that is not asking for men to look at her, drool, and need to go take a cold shower.” Why would you deny that a woman is asking for that kind of response if you did not mean to imply that it occurred in the first place. Let’s be honest here: You’re repeating several of the many arguments and deceptions used by those who have been working to corrupt the truth for many generations. These arguments are seductive, appealing to one’s own insecurities and lusts as do all of the best lies, and you fell for them at some point in your life.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
Think about it, friend. Isn’t accentuating one’s natural beauty another way of saying enhancing one’s attractiveness? Why would someone want to enhance their natural attractiveness if not to enhance their ability to attract? A hunter doesn’t bait a trap in order not to catch a prey. They don’t set a snare in order to please themselves, they do it to snare a prey. You claim that women do not do these things in order to make men look at them, but that’s really quite dishonest. I’m not saying that you disbelieve what you’ve said and are consciously lying about it, I’m not in a position to judge that, but the statement is false in nature regardless of whether or not you believe it.
As I’ve said, I did not raise the issue of mens’ modesty because I was addressing Kristen’s blog entry, and the issue was not a part of that entry. Once it was raised, I made it clear that I believe men should also dress modestly. To expand on that, I also believe men should make every effort to divert their eyes from a scantily clad woman to avoid the temptation that could result from allowing her image to gain place in his mind. Once you’ve seen something, you can’t erase the memory of it, and that’s where the real danger lies. A man may not react immediately, but the image remains in his memory for a long time, and thus is able to produce a lingering sexual temptation well beyond the period of time in which he is exposed to the sight. In other words, one brief glance can produce an extended period of temptation, struggle, and torment for the man who resists.
With regard to responsibility, I reiterate what I’ve already said: We are all responsible for our own actions, and we are all responsible for each other. If we love our fellow man, we will act in accordance with that responsibility, and avoid creating situations which may lead to a brother or sister’s stumbling. We are to uphold one another, not trip each other up.
May Eternal Father now draw you to himself through his only begotten and risen son Yahshua. May he lead you to Truth, and in the paths of righteousness. Peace to you.
Hi Kristen,
I just found you ( actually you commented on someone’s blog I know, sort of) and have enjoyed reading all your posts. It is good to offer a reason for what you do, an answer for what is a matter of faith. When you speak of something you do because of your faith you cannot expect those who do not believe in God to understand. I am not criticizing unbelievers, but just saying that God’s wisdom is foolishness to the world.
1 Corinthians 2:14 ” But the natural man receiveth not the thinkgs of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
We are slaves for Christ, not men. That is what this is really about. We choose to do what God says to do ( not referring to the headcovering issue here alone by any means, as I always say: many godly men and women throughout the ages have not agreed on this biblical subject and so we should not judge one another over it.) and it liberates us from the sinfulness of the world. The world would see it, naturally, as punishment. But if they knew of the abundant blessings one experiences through a relationship with Jesus they would not only understand, if not agree, why you have chosen to do this and, most importantly, be at peace within.
Blessings!
joanie
@joanie - thank you for the wonderful comment.
Blessings
I think it’s more a matter of fear than of hate. We in the west grew up with a history of people covering their faces to rob and kill. Masks, i.e. facial coverings, make it almost impossible to identify someone. That, in turn, makes it difficult to hold someone responsible for any crimes they may commit. Laws were then past to make it illegal to wear any kind of a mask in public.
Over time, we simply began feel that someone who doesn’t want their features to be see is someone who doesn’t want to be identified, and those who don’t want to be identified must have something to hide and must be up to no good. That, I think, is the true source of the problem.
So you see, it isn’t just women covering their heads. It’s the veiling of the face that gets most of us upset. That is also why we don’t like the fighters in the middle east and Asia. Anyone who is afraid to show his face can commit whatever atrocity they wish and just melt away into the crowd to escape punishment.