November 5, 2009
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Dead…Sleeping or in Heaven or Hell?
When someone dies what happens to them? Are they with Yeshua (Jesus)? I am sure you have heard plenty of people say oh they are with “Jesus” or “They are in a better place.” Are they? Where does the bible say they are?
Psa 115:17 The dead praise not Adonai, neither any that go down into silence.1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, Adonai said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
John 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
John 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
John 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
John 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Job 7:9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
Job 7:10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.Psa 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psa 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave?Isa 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Deu 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers;
Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee:
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
There is not any scripture that says we go straight to heaven or hell.
What are your thoughts on the issue?
Comments (42)
Well, 2 Cor 5 says
6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
But it is interesting to speculate, isn’t it?
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
and no, that doesn’t specifically say that we are immediately with him when we die, but it’s often inferred from that. The verses you have quoted are mostly from the OT, and those seem to speak of sleeping in the grave or a state of spirit unconsciousness, but I think there’s a good case to be made that that changed at the time that Christ ascended to heaven.
And I have to say too that since it’s not specifically spelled out in scripture, we probably don’t need to know.
@homefire - Why would it matter if it is the Tanakh (“old testament”) or the New Testament? God says “I am God I change not”
Why would it change in the New Testament?
(I wish more people would give their thoughts on this)
There is not any scripture that says we go straight to heaven or hell.
But that is so contrary to what was beat into our brains in Sunday school as children, that most of us just really can’t deal with the reality. So we’ll say that anyone who points this out is wrong, or heretical, or mislead, or all of the above.
Of course, the same folks who will shout from the rooftops how wrong you are, think nothing of writing “RIP – Rest In Peace” on the tombstones of loved ones. Never giving a second thought to what it means.
It seems that it is only in the last hundred years or so, that we got this crazy idea, that people go straight to heaven or hell instead of … resting in peace… until Christ returns.
I’m not sure. If we “rest in peace” until Christ’s return, then I’d imagine that from our perspective, it will be instantaneous.
Just as long as I get to Heaven, I don’t care how long it takes.
The fact that it all seems to exist outside of time anyway might complicate things.
@radicalramblings - Thank you for the wonderful comment. I do think you have a great point…about What is trained into people’s brains growing up and going to Sunday School.
@The_James_Blog - I agree that from our perspective it may seem instantaneous. And yes the whole outside time thing does complicate it a bit
@homefire - But, what of Jesus resurrecting Lazarus, who SLEPT in death? That’s about as new-testament as it gets. Surely, if the dead went directly to heaven or hell, Jesus would have been said to call Lazarus back from heaven/hell, rather than being said to awaken him.
@Kristenmomof3 - “Why would it matter if it is the Tanakh (“old testament”) or the New Testament? God says “I am God I change not” ”(I wish more people would give their thoughts on this)” AMEN!
* The Lord is opening my eyes to this very issue of following law versus living by grace; God wrote His law (word) upon our hearts, AND Jesus is the fullness (Glory) of God, and the law is a part of God, so the Law is also a part of Jesus, and we who believe and have been born of His Spirit (Born Again) have His spirit living within us, so we no longer have to “follow” the written law, because that law is now written upon our hearts in the form of the Spirit of the One True Living God, and it is He who works within us to cause us to adhere to the Laws of God in love and obedience. Grace was given as a gift to cover those Laws that we inadvertently break in our weakness.
So as we live by grace, keeping our hearts turned toward God, and all that is of God, because of what He has done for us; we, in love and in obedience, live pleasing unto Him, and are continually blessed and made worthy to enter into His presence in the Holy of Holies.
* I believe that once our physical body dies (the first death), it is dead. I don’t know if our spirit being sleeps with the physical body of rotting flesh or not. I believe our spirit being sleeps in the “presence” of the Father, but will arise from the “grave” (of unconciousness) when Jesus the Messiah calls that spirit forth; those who have been pleasing to God will rise to life, and those who have not been pleasing to God will rise and be condemned to eternal death (the second and final death).
* Gods word is Gods Word. It, like God, is the same yesterday, today and forever. Each Covenant was a successive covenant made between God and man. Each Covenant built upon the other. Each successive Covenant was combined with the former Covenant in order to continue the promises made by God with His chosen. Each Covenant was unique in itself, but joined together with the previous covenants made whole the promises of God. For me to qualify for the promises that God made to Abraham, I must also be included in the Covenant that God made with Abraham, and for me to be included in that promise, that promise either had to be written into the new covenant, or both new and old Covenants made a part of one another.
- A blood Covenant is rendered void only when one of the “signers” dies. The Blood of Jesus was given for the establishment of the New covenant, but did it also serve to void that previous Covenant? Or did it do away with those things that were not established by God as everlasting; I.e., Man established “Traditional” feasts and festivals, Animal sacrafice, rending of clothes, circumcision of the flesh, etcetera?
* As the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one being, they are also seperate in nature having different positions. Much as a mother, wife, sister, friend, confidant, employee; though they are the same person, the different positions call for a different nature of that person to be made manifest at different times.
This is what I believe to be true. However, my Lord is faithful and true, and reveals His truth to me as I continually walk in His ways, abiding in the Spirit. As I seek His truth, His spirit continues to open my eyes of understanding. Oh, that all of those who claim His name would do the same; then perhaps we, the Body of christ, would truly be of one accord.
@radicalramblings - Good point, though that would’ve been kinda funny. I would’ve imagined Jesus would get a “But I don’t wanna!!!” if he were in heaven already.
“What?? You brought me back HERE?!”
@The_James_Blog - ROTFL yeah I hadn’t thought it through that far but you’re right, that would have been a very different story
But on that note… how can heaven, be heaven, if we are there and aware of the pain of our loved ones who are still here? This is one of the reasons I believe that we sleep until the return of Christ when all are resurrected to eternal life, all at the same time, so that we are not there missing our loved ones and seeing them suffer here.
The Bible teaches us in the II Corinthians 5:8 passage that if we are “absent from the body” then we will be present with the Lord. So a person who is a believer will be in the presence of God.
As I look at the parable of Lazarus, it appears obvious that there was a confusion even with the disciples between the words for sleep and death. It appears that the two concepts could be confused even in their day. So sleep in the day of Jesus can be confused with death or sleep. That is obvious from the text.
I would agree with @homefire - in that I believe that the state of people under the law is different than the state of people under grace. I think that concept can be overplayed but there looks to be teachings in the New Testament that indicates a direct relationship between dying and immediate presence with God for the believer. That does not mean that God has changed. I have a son who just turned 16. When he was 15, I told him he couldn’t date. When he became 16, I told him he could date but he had provisions. I needed to meet the girl and I would make a decision on whether they could date. Did I change? No. It is a part of my unfolding plan as a parent to make sure my son has relationships that are pure. God did not change from the Old Testament time to the New Testament time but we see that certain concepts applied to people in the Old Testament era that don’t apply to the New Testament era.
So I think it is reasonable to believe that during the Old Testament era that God was actually vague to the people about what happened. Death was simply described as being buried or even sleep but it was a language the people understood. But it is interesting to note with the Lazarus parable that the people were still under law. So everything we understand about the Lazarus parable has to be understood to a group of people that were under law because Jesus had not died for their sins yet. Lazarus was clearly with Abraham. The other man was clearly in some state of punishment. It appears that the Bible teaches there will be a new heaven and a new earth. It looks like the new heaven will somehow combined with the new earth and will be like a return to the garden of Eden. It will be ruled by Jesus. So currently all the Christians are in some state of limbo but still in the presence of God. It is tough from scripture to characterize that state of limbo.
We can also understand from the Lazarus parable that the punishment for unbelief is already happening and the people are fully aware of it. They are in pain and suffering. But the Bible also indicates there is another state of hell that Satan will ultimately be thrown into. So it appears that there is a separate hell also.
To summarize, I think it is difficult to say what state the believers are actually in right now. Some of them must be at least awake during certain timeframes because we see that in scripture. So my best bet is that they are constantly awake but are still waiting for the final destination. But I would not rule out a sleeping state.
I believe that your soul is at peace when you die. Some move on to be reincarnated and some stay behind on earth with unfinished business. I don’t really believe in heaven or hell.
I’ve always been taught that you need a good relationship with God to go to heaven–which makes sense to me. However, it saddens me to think that people who don’t know God but are kind people may not be in heaven—so I don’t know if God will judge their deeds upon their death and I know that the Bible says you can’t get to heaven by good deeds alone. It really complicates things and sometimes once you think you understand the idea of heaven and hell, you are challenged (like all the ideas brought up in your post and in the comments) and wonder what really is true and what is not and will we ever know the truth before we die.
This was so interesting. It sounds a lot like what we believe:
when we die, we get buried (hopefully) and we believe that in the grave, as soon as the last person at the funeral walks 40 steps away, we get questioned in the grave: “who is your Lord?” “what is your Book?” and “what is your religion?” and those who, even if they know the answers in this life, didn’t live following their true faith, will laugh and say “I do not know!” out of ignorance. Those who lived following their faith will answer, and their graves will be opened wide and feel like a “glimpse”, if you like, of their home in Heaven. The others’ graves will close up on them and feel hot and uncomfortable, like a glimpse of Hell.
Then the trumpet is sounded, like in your post, and we rise (some believe bodies, some believe only souls) and Day of Judgement begins.
Aaaand that’s a long one in itself. I have a whole book on Life after Death and it goes through all the stages. It is fascinating, honestly. I wanted to do posts based on it but it was just too much. Plus, it’s in Arabic so it takes me longer to read and understand it. But hey, maybe one day.
@OhItWontBeForever - if you ever do the post let me know. I would be interested to read it.
HI Kristen – this is something I feel very strongly about. In my caregroup last year, we studied the book “Heaven” by Randy Alcorn and learned alot about it, including, what I believe is, the Scriptural belief that if you’ve trusted Jesus, you go to be with Him immediately after death – not bodily, but in your soul. I acknowledge that the Scriptures you’re quoting are difficult to interpret. As a Reformed believer, I believe in the “interpret the Bible by the Bible” way of exegesis – however, I’m no theologian, and learning to understand the Bible and it’s myriad of teachings from the OT through the NT can be difficult. Heck, even the apostle Peter said that some things Paul said were difficult to understand! So, I “rely” on the writings of studied, learned theologians. In that respect, let me share with you a part of the book “Questions and Answers” by Dr RC Sproul. The question (on page 202) is “When a person dies, where does his or her spirit and body go until the Second Coming?” The answer:
Throughout its history, the church has struggled with the concept of what is called the “intermediate state” – our position between the time we die and teh time Christ consummates his kingdom and fulfills the promises that we confess in the Apostles Creed……………The most common view has been that, at death, the soul immediately goes to be with God and there is a continuity of personal existence. There is no interruption of life at the end of this life, but we continue to be alive in our personal souls upon death. There are those who have been influenced by a cultic view called psychopannychia, more famously known as soul sleep. The idea is that at death the soul goes into a state of suspended animation. It remains in slumber, in an unconscious state, until it is awakened at the time of the great resurrection. The soul is still alive, but it is unconscious, so that there is no consciousness of the passing of time. I think this conclusion is drawn improperly from the euphemistic way in which the NT speaks about people in death being asleep. The common Jewish expression that they are “asleep” means they are enjoying the reposed, peaceful tranquility of those who have passed beyond the struggles of this world and into the presence of God. But the overall teaching of Scripture, even in the OT, where the bosom of Abraham was seen as the place of afterlife, there is this persistent notion of continuity. Paul put it this way: To live in this world is good; the greatest thing that can ever happen is to be participating in the final resurrection. But the intermediate state is even better. Paul said that he was caught between two things. On the one hand, his desire was to depart and be with Christ, which is far better, and on the other hand, he had a desire to remain alive and continue his ministry on earth. But the apostle’s judgment that the passing beyond the veil of death to that intermediate state is far better than this one gives us a clue, along with a host of other passages. Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise” The image of Dives and Lazarus in the NT (Luke 16:19-31) indicates to me that there is a continuity of life and of consciousness in that intermediate state.”
I believe when people die, their soul remain on earth in a different dimension which we can’t interact with. When the time comes, apocalypse will happen, only the chosen ones (include those that are already dead) shall raise and be with God. When earth is cleanse once again, the chosen ones will brought back to earth and repopulate.
@nicolevw - In the original text, it did not contain
commas and chapters , as our Bibles are now, the comma in this verse is a fault
of the transcribers. They put the comma in the wrong place. It should read,”
Verily I say unto thee today,shalt thou be with me in paradise. Just moving the
comma on word back.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto
him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch
me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say
unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your
God.
Jesus
Himself did not go to paradise that day, but laid in the sepulcher 3 days.
1. Jesus said to the thief on the cross – “Today though shalt be with me in Paradise.”
2. On the mount of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were alive, talking with Jesus.
3. In Rev. 6:9-10, we see people that were martyrs who are alive and asking God how long it’s going to be until there blood is avenged.
4. Jesus tells us that the rich man is in hell and Abraham is also alive.
5. Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Where is Jesus? He’s in heaven, sitting at the right hand of the Father. When we die, we are in the presence of Jesus and the Father.
@musterion99 - your number 1 is addressed in the comment above yours.
@musterion99 - what about John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
@Kristenmomof3 - It seems as with many other doctrines, that scriptures can be shown to support both views. So it’s a matter of what you choose to believe. As for John 5:28, our souls are not in the graves as I showed with Rev. 6:9-10. Just our bones are in the grave. It seems like when John says ‘in the graves’, it’s symbolic of our deceased, no longer existing bodies, not our souls, and the time when we will receive new glorified bodies. Matt. 10:28 clearly shows that are bodies and souls are distinct.
I’m curious, are you a Jehovah’s Witness?
@musterion99 - No I am not a Jehovah’s Witness. (LOL…that is the first time anyone has ever asked me that question.)
How can they hear the voice in the grave and come forth if you are saying they are not in the grave? What about all the other verses listed?
@OhItWontBeForever - What’s the name of the book?
@The_James_Blog - The Qur’aan, in our beliefs.
@Kristenmomof3 - If there was no comma, how can you know where it’s supposed to, versus where the transcriber thought it should go? An honest question — That’s a concept that kind of blows my mind a bit. I don’t know how I’d get by without punctuation!
@OhItWontBeForever - Oh, silly me, that should have been obvious. Sorry, for some reason I thought you referencing a third party source.
@The_James_Blog - haha.
No, it’s just the book and religion we follow, plus God. 
@Kristenmomof3 - Well, what about the verses I gave? That’s why I said that both sides can be supported scripturally. If the verse from John is symbolic as I said, then they will hear God’s voice while being in his presence. What about in Jude 14 where it says that when Jesus comes back, he is coming with his saints.
You do know that JW’s believe what you do on this?
It looks like a lot has been said but here’s my two cents. Luke 23:43 Jesus declares the thief on the cross to be with Him in Paradise, not soul sleep. Soul sleep is a doctrine that came our of a misunderstanding of scripture. Everytime it comes up the terms used are speaking of physical death. Our bodies sleep or await the resurrection so they can be remade perfectly. Jesus also said that Lazarus was dead when he spoke plainly. Does that mean he went to Hell? No, because He was speaking in physical terms. If He had been speaking spiritually when He used the word sleep He wouldn’t later say that Lazarus was dead, because in spiritual terms that means Hell.
Also, 2 Corinthians 5:8 (I’m sure you’ve seen this verse used a lot by others in here.) it’s clear that Paul is speaking spiritually and not physically because He is saying “absent from the body”. So, in that light Paul couldn’t be more blunt that our souls wait in the presence of the Lord while our bodies wait in “slumber”.
Finally, in Luke 16, the story of the other Lazarus and the Rich Man both the people in torment and the people in bliss are fully cognisent. Some might say that this is just a parable and can’t be taken literally but most non-liberal scholars agree that the story actually took place at some point and Christ was recalling from memory. Reason? Because in all of His parables he never gave names. In this instance He did and every other time He gave names He was talking about real people.
Soul Sleep? No, our soul is with the Lord while our body awaits a renewal (which would be the point when it awakens). Anyone can disagree with me but I’m confident this is what the Bible says.
The time we spend living life is significantly shorter than the time we spend dead… I think one ought to make the most of their life and not worry so much about what happens to us after… I would be more concerned about what happens to those who come after us in this world…
We have no real understanding of our own death. One thing is for certain, when we dead, we are not alive.
I’ve heard these scriptures much discussed over my few short years, and I’m not sure just how clear the scriptures are on the subject. there are also several scriptures that (At the very least) suggest that we are concious in some internment place. the strongest evidence I remember is the story of Lazarus and Dives, wich was told directly by Yeshua.
Dives even asks for a drop of water in torment so that he might cool his tongue.
There are several others as well, I could look them up if you’d like. but truth is these are not the kind of questions I focus people on. they make great theological debates, but I try to keep people focused on the subjects that bring others Closer to God.
Blessings!
This might be a little off track but - when I crashed 7 times, my heart stopped, I had to be resuscitated, on life support then in a coma I didn’t see anything. The doctors had my family sign the DNR – they refused to “bring me back” after so many times. I hung around with Clint Eastwood for awhile while I was in the 3 month coma. Didn’t see any bright light, angels, nothing like that. I’m not being an ass, about this. It was a really scary experience. When the doctors decide you’re so far gone and won’t do anything anymore, you’re done. I don’t know why or how I came out of it but I did. All of the doctors and staff nicknamed me “the Miracle Man” – they’ve never seen anything like it. Something out of everyone’s control happened – that’s for sure.
I posted what the Qur’an says about death, Allah’s Mercy and the verse that says the Messengers (that means every prophet from Adam to Mohammad) were given permission to intercede or pray to Allah and ask Him to forgive our sins, if we repent.
Death is a mystery , that is without a doubt. I offer only some things of a personal experience, that I share openly with you on this subject. I am a Christian, I experience a NDE when I was a teenager and saw myself on the ground while my spirit was above myself. I also experienced the flashing of life, where I saw myself from birth to the present time(at 13). 4 years ago I was with my husband at his passing, and a year later present within moments of my father and his passing after my mother had just died 15 days earlier, In both cases, just prior to death, they looked to the ceiling as they if they saw something. Whatever my husband saw, it brought tears to his eyes. A year ago July, I attended the wedding of my son, who was very close to my husband, the next day after the wedding, they came to where I was staying at a friends, very excited and asked me to look at a picture that had been developed at the wedding, I have this picture should anyone like to see it. As my son danced with his little girl, on the picture was a a bright squiggly light line and just above it in the upper right hand corner, was an image of a man who looks very much like my husband with this hand stretched out as if to wave. There is a second picture which I have not seen that shows the same image of the same person, sitting at a table at the wedding with his jacket off and and tie off, which is the very exact thing my husband would have done had he been there in person. I cannot explain it, and probrably will not ever explain it.
My grandmother at the passing of my grandfather experienced an actual visit from my grandfather the day he was buried, and of course we all thought she was crazy until we saw the side of his bed where it was as if someone had been sitting there, on the bedspread, He was dressed in the same clothes he was buried in( my husband was also) and sat on the bed and talked to my grandmother except he was a young man again, and told her that it was not her time, but when it was he would come. Then a man came into the room and told my grandfather that he needed to come back now, as he had been given special permission to comfort my grandmother my grandmother told me that she knew that the man was an angel,. I am telling a condesed version here, but based on these experiences I have had in my personal life, and I am very much a bible believing Christian, I do believe that to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord. I have no other explanation for these experiences, nor do I believe that they are satanic imitators as some seem to say when spirits are seen.
There are things that we will never know until our moment of death comes, but I also believe that there are many things that happen in our life that sometimes help us to be stronger in our faith, these experiences only made my faith stronger in the belief in Our Lord Jesus Christ, and have given me the greater desire to follow a Christian walk. This may not help in quelling the confusion, but… I wanted to share my thoughts anyways,,Blessings, Benita
I think the reason this is such a difficult topic to wrap our minds around and agree upon is that we’re all still bound by temporal constraints. We see the past as something that has been here and gone, and we see the future as something that hasn’t happened yet, and our deaths are something we understand as future events. But our God exists in Eternity, free of the temporal constraints that cloud our perception and reality. He exists not only in the present, but in the past and in the future as well, simultaneously. Yeshua makes this perfectly clear by way of statements he made well before His death and resurrection:
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (John 8:57-58)
Please note that Yeshua did not say “Before Abraham was, I was.” He says “Before Abraham was, I AM“, indicating that at the same time He was speaking with those people all those years after Abraham, He was also present in the time before Abraham even existed. He was present with those people at that time and the in the past simultaneously. Another statement He made makes it clear that He is also present in what we perceive as the future:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)
Note again that Yeshua uses the present indicative, “I AM“, not the future indicative “I will be”. This is confirmed in Revelation:
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. (Revelation 21:6)
As has been noted here in other comments, God is everlasting and does not change, so this is perfectly in keeping with OT scripture which describes the nature of God in relation to time:
He hath made everything beautiful in its time: also he hath set eternity in their heart, yet so that man cannot find out the work that God hath done from the beginning even to the end. (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: (Isaiah 46:9-10)
Man can not find out the work God HAS DONE from the beginning to THE END. He has already done it all, everything, it’s already done!
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it; and God hath done it, that men should fear before him. That which is hath been long ago; and that which is to be hath long ago been: and God seeketh again that which is passed away. (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15)
So… what happens when we die? Well friends and brothers and sisters, whatever it is, is has ALREADY HAPPENED! We just can’t perceive it with these eyes of flesh! For those of us who are saved by grace and have the promise of everlasting life in Christ, must we wait to be in Heaven?
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: (Ephesians 2:4-6)
We’re already there! Soon, we’ll be able to perceive it…
that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: (Ephesians 2:7)
All praise and honor and glory to our Eternal Father in heaven and His risen son, our Saviour yeshua! Their love for us is eternal, and the implications of that are beyond imagination!
My thought is that when you die its like you fell asleep. But such a deep sleep that you don’t feel the passing of time.
We’ve all had this one time or another, we wake up in the morning thinking we just fell asleep, but we’re still refreshed.
So while death may not send us straight to heave or hell, it might feel like it does because we wouldn’t feel all that time passing.
The Bible teaches a ressurection of the dead in the last day. Anyone who studies the Bible will see this for themself. A final judgement day as seen in the Book of Revelation. It is also imperative to note that Yeshua said “this day you will be with me in PARADISE”. A quick word study will unveil that the word “paradise” is equivalent to the Hebrew word “Eden”. Now for a little free thinking, what would the purpose of a ressurection be if we were already in the presence of the Most High.
I would challenge everyone here to read Revelation chapter 20. It will prove that no one is in heaven or hell yet, because judgement day has not come yet.
I would tend to agree with you, Kristen. I do think our spirit goes to a restful or peaceful phase; for instance, when Jesus talked about poor Lazarus who went to Abraham’s bosom- perhaps this is a type of the peace or rest we will experience. I know a lot of dying people have seen visions of angels or Jesus coming to them, so I think there is a certain presence of the Lord with our spirit. However, I think Scripture would support the idea that being in the real-life presence of God and experiencing the glories of heaven will be reserved for believers at the Judgment Day. In the sme way, I think spirits of those who were not right with God may have a certain element of unrest or agony; (again, the account of Lazarus and the rich man) however, I don’t think someone would be cast into hell until he is tried and condemned for his sins in Judgment. Just my opinion; this was an interesting question.
ok. this is just me offering up some thoughts and another question. for the most part, i’ve always pretty much believed that our soul goes in to a sleep, sort of, when we die. what’s the point of a final resurrection if we’re all already there. unless it’s just for those that are still living. but that wouldn’t be a resurrection if they are already alive when He comes. (i’m thinking and typing as i go…)
now here’s where i get caught up. here’s where i get a little confused and think MAYBE we do go straight to heaven or hell. in Hebrews 11 we get all these people of faith. it’s like a hall of fame. then the first verse of chapter 12 says this: ” Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith…” what is this “crowd of witnesses”? other translations call it a “cloud of witnesses”. if we say crowd, it could be those alive that are watching us. if we say cloud are we referring to people in heaven? does this verse refer back to the people listed in chapter 11? if you say yes, then we have to also say that they are ‘watching’ us so to speak. if they are watching us then they have to be ‘awake’ or something. they can’t just be in the grave and be all seeing. so if they are watching us and already with God, then why them but not others?
sorry if i’m confusing or if i don’t make any sense!
Soul Sleep
(Verses against Soul Sleep)
“And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.”-Genesis 35:18
“And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child’s soul come into him again. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.”-1 Kings 17:21-22
(This soul does a lot of traveling for a soul that was sleeping in the grave.)
“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”-Luke 16:22-23
“And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls (not bodies) of them that were slaim for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”-Revelation 6:9-10
They weren’t crying in their sleep but they were conscious and aware of what was going on.
I have a book on Heaven by Thomas Ice and I’m ready to go a second round on the topic and language of soul sleep. It is probably one of the only books that has explained to me what the language of ‘sleep’ meant in their culture and no one else has explained it very well.
“We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”-2 Corinthians 5:8
To be absent from our dead bodies is to be present with the Lord if the person is a Christian.
Assalamualaikum Sister,
One day the Prophet (pbuh) went to a boy’s funeral and he found his mother weeping and he asked: “Why are you crying?” The mother said: “O’ messenger of Allah, is my son in Heaven or Hell?”. The Prophet replied: “O’ slave of Allah, He (Allah) knows his status better than I do.”
The Prophet said: “The Believer’s Soul turns into a Bird in Paradise.” (This Hadith means, that upon the Believer’s death, his Soul becomes a bird in Paradise until the Resurrection day, when Allah (SWT) returns all souls to its original bodies).
Thousand apologies for the very late reply.