February 13, 2011
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Calling all Atheists
Ok. This is an open call to all atheist on Xanga. I was listening to something that was talking about closet atheists. It was talking about how atheism is like homosexuality was in the 80s.
I am asking all atheists to come out of their closets. Leave a comment (or message) on here stating that you are one. Also tell me why. Now I know some have not studied stuff or anything so your answer might be just because you are and that is an ok answer. There is no wrong response.
Also feel free to leave links to any articles or youtube videos or anything like that which you think explains your thoughts on issues.So…. How many Atheists are there on Xanga?
Comments (113)
a ton. i’m one.
why? check my post ‘my journey to atheism‘
I’m an atheist. And I’m one because there is no reason to believe a god exists, plus a ton of other reasons.
@veronika_grey - I will go read that
@TheThinkingPerson - thank you for answering
I don’t know if there is a god or not, but I find it hard to believe that the god my family believes in would be OK with the kind of intolerance and sometimes hatred I see in them.
@SeeBeeWrite - so you would be an agnostic?
@Kristenmomof3 - I guess? I had to look that up. I suppose if it turned out heaven exists I would want in.
I go between believing and not believing all the time. I’m definitely not a Torah literalist, and I do think that most of our current religions fit “And Man created g-d in his own likeness and image.”
@hevcoh - thank you for answering
I’m an atheist. I’ve thought about it a lot and came to the conclusion that God is just something people cling to, and that religion as we know it is obsolete. Some of it I can’t really put into words, but basically in my line of thinking, God cannot exist.
Does agnostic count?
@thepsychoticraccoon - thank you for answering
@Soul_Pizza - thanks for responding
@Sand_notes - sure
I’m not really in the closet… on Xanga. IRL, I am, and that’s simply because I don’t like causing a fuss. To me, a religious tag isn’t that important, however to my Christian family and friends, it would be. If I came out, I’d feel like I was suddenly the center of everyone’s attention, and could possibly even become a black sheep, and I just don’t want that. Things just work better as long as everyone assumes I’m still Christian, as I was raised. I hate living that lie, but I feel like I’m forced to. If I honestly thought I’d be accepted and wouldn’t be the butt of every religious argument from now on… maybe I’d come out. But I know my family to well, and that just wouldn’t be the case.
I came to this conclusion based on what I’ve seen and experienced, both as a former practicing Christian and as a simple human being. That conclusion is that, sure, maybe there is a higher power… but I don’t think I was really meant to know for sure (technically I’m Agnostic, but I consider it as close enough to atheist to respond). An old book is an old book to me, and one old book doesn’t hold more validity than another old book because the followers of that old book say that it does, and that certainly doesn’t make said book proof of God’s existence.
Plain and simple, when I look at the world I don’t really know what I see… Maybe it was creation, or maybe it was an accident. I tend to lean towards the idea that there’s probably not a “creator,” but who’s to know, really? EIther way you look at it, the story of how we got here is probably absolutely amazing and makes absolutely no sense to our fragile minds, so it really doesn’t matter much to me either way. Life is a gift, and to our knowledge we only get one, so why not just live it to the fullest?
That’s how I see it, anyway.
I, belleorecluses, am an atheist. Because I am the most realistic person you’ll meet. My parents and my whole family are atheist, but I have always been taught about religion and have been told I am able to make my own decision now that I know the facts. And I chose atheism.
I’m atheist! i was already out though =p
I am atheist. I am because most religions contradict themselves and i try to be rational and i cannot accept things that seem painfully irrational to me.
The best example of this in the 3 abrahamic religions is God knows everything that will ever, has ever happened. He knows before he created me if I would end up in heaven or hell. Yet these 3 religions claim i have free will and going to heaven or hell is up to me. I dont see how these two things could possibly exist at once. me
I’m an athiest – for too many reasons to get into here.
But I’ve never felt like I couldn’t admit it… so… I’m just joining in here.
@tendollar4ways - Because He has knowledge of everything e.g. as if to Him it has happened already. If someone recorded your life as it were occurring and then took the end document outside of time it would not have impeded upon the liberties you possess of will & choice at all. A record does no such thing. Since when does reading a historical account of anything alter history?
I’m an Atheist.
This answer probably bugs people, but there’s a reason why I say it: I haven’t seen any evidence of God.
I say this because I acknowledge that maybe some people have (although I doubt it; I do wish to give people the benefit of the doubt). Simply put I just haven’t “found God”. Or “God hasn’t found me”. Whatever it is, I’m not seeing what they’re seeing.
I don’t feel I’ve done anything wrong, and I feel that if God really wants me to believe in Him, he’d make it known that He exists. It doesn’t seem to be a big deal to Him. And if it is a big deal, then he really has no one to blame but Himself for not making His existence known in more practical ways.
Obviously I am an atheist. The first thought I ever had that lead me down the path of atheism was that that people are born into their religions and I was a christian only by chance. Now there are many other reasons I am an atheist. The most obvious being that there is absolutely no evidence that any god exists.
I’m not an atheist, but my philosophies are too well-defined for agnosticism. I’m deeply influenced by the Renaissance art and literature that I study. I’m more of a pantheist, I think- everything is divine.
I realize that doesn’t really apply here, but it’s probably as close to atheism without actually being atheism, so I thought I’d chime in.
It’s really hard for me to say I’m an atheist. I usually call myself agnostic. I don’t believe in a Christian god or any other, however. Maybe this is closest atheism at its finest???
Tally me an atheist.
Me!
I guess the biggest reason is that I could never reconcile what I was taught in church with what I learned studying science. Science had evidence to back up its claims, and all church had was a heavily edited and mistranslated ~2000 year old book of stories. It was a long process but that’s the gist of it.
I’m an atheist, a soft one, if you will. I don’t claim to know god(s) don’t exist, let alone invisible teacups orbiting Mars, however both have equal evidence of their existence being zip, zilch, and zero. I’m a man of reason, so I have no reason to believe in gods. To believe in something there is no evidence of is a notion of faith, which is an irrational concept, which goes against reason. Having said that I can’t see myself ever believing in gods either, as logical arguments for gods (especially of the creator kind, which I believe I’m all familiar with) are fallacious. Nothing in science is illogical, and I believe the universe can be explained logically, simply because illogical things are impossible.
My understandings of quantum mechanics (basic, very basic) tell me how the universe can exist without a god, even though we don’t have all the answers yet. One thing we do have is theoretical models based on evidence found in nature, which point to the universe being a product of random probability. This includes the ‘laws’ and everything (ie: You don’t need a god to make these rules and ‘start’ the universe.) The behaviour of sub-atomic particles alone transcend commonly held beliefs about spacetime (which seem to be at least a century old, so why has the education systems of the world not addressed this?), and allows for a universe to exist without cause. We do not perceive time (or at least the commonly held notion of it), we perceive change. You can effect an event billions of years in the past by merely looking into the sky at night. This would not be possible in the commonly held notion of ‘the past’.
Most people don’t know it, but we have tried-and-tested natural explanations for almost everything in the universe, thanks to investment in machines like the LHC. This has made room for god incomprehensibly tiny. It is literally the size of whatever particle(s) we have yet to discover and describe the behaviour of. This makes me confident to argue a practically undeniable conclusion: Creator gods exist outside random probability. I’ll say it again in a simpler way, gods exist outside probability. Though it is impossible to disprove anything, I think that is as close as you can get to saying gods can’t exist. After all, if it lives outside possibility, is it not impossible?
. To falsify this perspective of mine, one would need to show I have misunderstood the science, or show the science is wrong, or come up with some brilliant argument from logic, that no one has ever thought of yet.
I encourage anyone to criticise my claims, as long as you give equal criticism of your own, otherwise you are fooling yourself. I for one would be the first to admit that I’m probably wrong on details, but I believe I’m pretty accurate about the ‘big picture’. Do your own objective research.
@belleorecluses - thank you for answering
@jenessa1889 - thank you also for answering
@tendollar4ways - I already knew both you and Mark are atheists, But I am really happy that you came and answered the question. Thank you
@BingleBot - thank you for answering.
@Blind_Paraplegic - Wow…. Thank you for answering. I really enjoyed reading your answer. I admire your honesty
@AtheistInfidel - I love how you say Obviously I am an atheist. That made me laugh. who would have ever guessed by your screen name that you might be an atheist LOL
Thank you for visiting my page and answering
@wildchildofthebluemoon - Sounds like atheism to me
but have you ever heard of the
spectrum of theistic probability.
It is something that Dawkins talks about. It is a way of categorizing one’s belief regarding the probability of the existence of a deity.
Dawkins posits that “the existence of God is a scientific hypothesis like any other.” He goes on to propose a continuous “spectrum of probabilities” between two extremes of opposite certainty, which can be represented by seven “milestones”. Dawkins suggests definitive statements to summarize one’s place along the spectrum of theistic probability. These “milestones” are:
1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: “I do not believe, I know.”
2. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. “I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.”
3. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. “I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.”
4. Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. “God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.”
5. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. “I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.”
6. Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. “I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.”
7. Strong atheist. “I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung ‘knows’ there is one.”
Dawkins has said that he considers himself a 6 with strong leanings toward 7.
@my_words_are_my_sanctuary - Thank you for replying
@carolinavenger - thank you for answering
@Spectrophile - Have you watched “What the bleep Down the rabbit hole”
It is a really good movie about quantum mechanics simplified. We have the quantum Edition with over 6 extra hours of stuff.
Thank you for answering. I really enjoyed reading what you wrote. No invisible teacups orbiting Mars, next thing I know you will tell me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn’t real either
silly but I say I am atheist, where as I am really agnostic. Simply because I am very open minded but I don’t like others influencing my choices and since I am yet to make one I find saying I am atheist simply puts me in the “too hard basket” where as, in the past, if I have said I am agnostic I get bombarded with information that overwhelms me. Then makes me think… if it is true, why do you need to shove it in my throat?
I am literally on the fence but for now I am happy here… The view is better.
I will be attending local church with my sister whom has “embraced” christianity after being the avid atheist and she thinks it will do me good. Open minded me is set to attend next Sunday…
@TheGhioniFiles - thank you for answering. I can totally understand what you mean about why you would say what you do.
Abraham Lincoln was not an atheist!
@tendollar4ways - Atheism isn’t a religion. Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism are all atheistic religions because they don’t believe in a single creator god.
Most people will say they’re atheists because they don’t subscribe to any organized religion, but there are plenty of atheistic religions. Buddhism, Jainism, Confucianism, Taoism, and Hinduism. Most humanistic and naturalistic religions are also atheistic, e.g. Scientology. Pagan religions are typically polytheistic, but it’s possible for a Pagan not to believe in their gods and are therefore atheistic and identify themselves as Pagan Atheists.
@Stanelle - He never formally joined any church either.
It really depends on how my life is going, but what I really like to do is question why anyon believes what they do. Especially Christians. They don’t know the Bible as well as they should.
I’m Agnostic. I do believe in some kind of higher power, but not the god of the bible.
I’m definitely not an atheist. However, i’m not sure where i stand with God right now either.
I’m an Atheist and proud of it. I was brought up Catholic, and even as a kid I never believed. Life could be explained perfectly well by studying it. Throwing a god into the mix just needlessly complicates things. Add to that a study of the history of religion, and the gradual realization that it exists only for the purpose of allowing humans to control large numbers of weaker humans, and you get a certified atheist.
I like your call for people to get out of the closet to say who they are. Although I am not belonging to any formal religion, I consider myself a theist but respect atheist’s right to question theism and choose atheism as a path for themselves. Like with homosexuality people do not have to agree with me for us to live together and respect each other.
This is am awesome post. I’m enjoying the comments.
Anyone who’s looked at my Xanga has probably figured out that I’m an atheist. The simple reason is that there’s no good reason to believe in any gods, and good reason to think there aren’t any. Here’s a post I wrote a while back debunking a number of standard arguments that many theists like to bring against atheists.
I don’t talk about it much on my Xanga because that’s not why I created it, but I, too, am an atheist. Explaining all the reasons for it would probably require a book. Or even several books. But yeah, I’m an atheist. On Dawkins scale, I would probably count as about a 6.9.
@explosive - Thank you for your reply
@gottobereal64 - thank you for answering.
@TokenFatFriend - thank you for your comment. Hugs
@Jal_Phoenix - thanks for answering
@Zeal4living - Yes, closets are for clothing not people
thank you for responding
@JulieDeer - Thank you. I am enjoying reading the comments as well. Luv ya sis
@chaospet - Thank you for answering. I will check out your post that you linked
@TheSchizoidMan - Thank you for answering. Maybe you should write a book. Who knows it could make you rich
Atheist, waaaaay out of the closet.
A few poems on the subject, link, link, link. : )
I’m one. It was simply a matter of being rational. I decided a lot of the stuff people claim about God seems pretty far fetched and just overall silly. Honestly, I don’t know how someone can read the bible and think, “Yea man, I can totally see that happening.”
I guess in general the idea of God seems silly. And then that they can’t really back it up with any real evidence is worse.
Wow….as a Christian, I read these posts with a broken heart knowing the joy missed and the Truth is rejected. Guess my prayer list got a little longer today.
I am an atheist because I don’t think a god exists. I’ve never seen any real evidence that supports the claim that a god exists. I also think most religions are based on superstition and that they divide people. And people are always so sure that their religion is the true one. But most of the popular religions have only been around for a small fraction of human history.
This seems to be a big topic on Xanga. Quite a few people get riled up over it as well, either in support of or against the idea of it. I’m not ‘coming out of the closet’ as it were; like a lot of the people posting I was never in the closet. I’ve never been questioned about why I don’t believe in God. I’ve never really questioned it myself. As a child I thought you either chose to believe in a religion or not- some people chose to, others didn’t. It never bothered me one way or the other. Reading about the ‘atheist threat’ in newspapers just baffles me. I can’t conceive of it being a danger- I am not without morals, and I certainly don’t think morality is based solely on religious tradition.
Also it doesn’t make sense to me that one religion is considered worthier than another. Why should the only way to salvation be through Jesus and not Zeus? Why does Catholicism make more sense than pagan spirituality? At what point does religion simply become mythology and therefore dismiss-able?
I was raised in a very strong Christian family – we were originally non-denominational, then Presbyterian, then Reformed Presbyterian. I became an agnostic when I started taking critical thinking in school and noticed the fallacies that were being used to support my belief system. Now, I’m an atheist simply because, as I’ve grown and learned more, I just don’t really see a reason to believe that a deity exists.
I’m not in the closet online, but I tend to keep it quiet in real life, simply because I live in the Bible Belt and it’s just easier to avoid conflict by keeping mum and changing the subject.
Atheist. I don’t think anyone in my family, at my school, or amongst my community really cares either way.
Too bad most of the people in that photo at the end weren’t actually atheists. It’s common for the left and those who wish to rewrite history to claim such things based on those people’s writings without fully understanding what was going on and the point of said writings. They try to pass off their ignorance onto the rest of us.
I’m atheist. I deconverted to it because I was worried I was only Christian because I’d grown up that way and my parents were, so I started from scratch to be a better Christian and then none of the reasons or explanations ever made any sense. It was a pretty hard and depressing few years.
One miracle, that’s all I ask. Let me see something that cannot possibly be explained away as a natural phenomenon, then I will believe in something greater. Something on the order of the sky opening up, and God’s hand reaching down to pinch my cheek would do nicely. The cheek under my eye, you naughty-thinker.
I am an atheist
&&my answer is very similar to others
… and Charles Darwin(in one of the pictures above) was not an atheist.
@agnophilo - oh really
Who would have ever thought that you might be an atheist LOL
@MangoWOW - Thank you for answering
@escapist767 - thanks for responding
@theloniusmarx - I didn’t realize that this is a big topic on here right now. Makes me wonder how I missed it. Oh well. Thank you for commenting.
@polemicallyinclined - Thank you for commenting
@Celestial_Teapot - I thought you were. You know based on the screen name alone but that was just a guess.
Thank you for commenting
@Sunrie - I did not make the graphic and if you read the post you know that was not the point of the post at all. If you wish to debate that feel free to make a post about it and let me know.
@thejcoolmoonster - Thank you for your comment
@limpwitted - LOL….I really like your comment and understand what you are saying. I am not sure if it was supposed to make me giggle or not but it did because of the mental picture that I saw when reading it
@petiteme_x - Thank you for your comment.
I have not, nor will I ever, conceal the fact that I am not superstitious.
Quite to the contrary; I’d be more ashamed of superstition than the lack thereof.
I spent most of my time reading as a child and young adult. Eventually, it became clear to me that the religions and cults of this world just couldn’t stand up to rational scrutiny. I think I “officially” declared myself an atheist at about the age of 13. All of the information pointed that way.
Atheism should be the default position, because believing in a God is making a claim about the universe and atheism is not.
But if by why, you mean to ask why atheism is important, I actually wrote on this recently http://foliagedecay.xanga.com/740331113/atheist-because-of-compassion/
Yeah, Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were deists, not atheists. A deist is only semantically different from an atheist, but still for accuracies sake you should remove that graphic.
For more info on the religion of the founders, you should see the book “Six Historic Americans: Were they Christian?”
I am an atheist for lots of reasons add me in your list ..!!
It’s not that I don’t believe in god. I just don’t believe in believing. God is a real concept, but I see no compelling reason to believe it except for an ancient translation meaning “good”. I do believe in good.
I’m an atheist, and very much out of the closet. Why? Because there is no evidence to support a belief in god(s). Furthermore, if there were a god and he/she “hides” the evidence, how would you know which god out of the many, many made up gods is the real one? What if you picked wrong, lived your life according to that god’s rules, and then found out your damned because it wasn’t the right god and the right rules? Every religion thinks they’re right, and every religion has the same amount of actual evidence to that – zero, nada, zilch. The one thing I do know is that I have this life, and it is the only life I am guaranteed, the only life I know of, and I’m not wasting it on bended knee to a rule book that is most likely nothing more than a fairytale.
@FoliageDecay - I will check out your post. Thanks for the comment
@sAm_rOy - thanks for answering
@Amoralis - thanks for the comment
@Melissa___Dawn - thanks for coming by and answering the question
I’m an agnostic but probably more atheist at heart than anything else. I would love to believe in a God, and in heaven, and all that funky stuff- without it life is scary. Without it- life ends. But I stopped believing in God kind of in tandem with santa claus and the toothfairy- it has lasted a little better but my reasons were mostly the same. As a child it was easy to accept that this happened or that happened and things just are they way they are, but when I got older there were obviously issues- How does santa get to all the houses and still operate in human time? How would santa get special time, who would give it to him? Magic? What is magic, how does one get it? Why does Santa leave different sort of gifts and different amounts of gifts depending on whose house he goes to? And the same thing happened to God. Why would God be so human-like in all his “rules” if he wasn’t created by humans? If I’ve realized that creationism and the flood definitely didn’t happen but that’s what I was told, how do I know they aren’t wrong about God too? Isn’t it actually probable they’re wrong if they still haven’t realized evolution happens? From anthropological history it seems pretty evident that there is something about the structure of the human mind/civilization that makes the invention of a God or God-like thing likely; if other Gods were false, why is this God necessarily real? Isn’t it true that all people believed in their God until it became obvious or likely that the God was invented by man? What are the chances of God both being invented and real at the same time? Why would God exist to begin with if everything would have happened anyways? How exactly would heaven function and be at all logical?
And so, I am agnostic/atheist.
@ScarletMoth - thanks for your reply
As with many things in life I wont pretend to know the answers.
I can not think of a reason why I wouldn’t admit that.
I’m an atheist because it’s hard for me to conceive an existence of a god, and I say god but i can say ETs or something like that…I consider that religions are nice way to learn some values, and that’s their prurpose. It’s hard for me too, to deal with the tons of hypocrisy that is among the religious people.In my opinion it begins to be a choise (not to belive) and then becomes something thats a real impossibility.
Although I am a Christian, I am not here to cause trouble. I find all the comments informative and it helps me to understand the athiestic viewpoit. Christians generally think there is something after this life…heaven, hell, purgatory, even reincarnation with some faiths. What is the athiestic viewpoint of afterlife or is there is any afterlifeof any kind?
@Kristenmomof3 - Haven’t seen that, no. Made a note of it for later though, sounds interesting. Of course the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists, I ate his flesh and drank his blood last night in fact. Surely he is the origin of the canned spaghetti I had for dinner.
Xanga needs a poll feature, or maybe there’s some other site you can create polls with for this type of thing. I am an atheist because it makes sense to me, and I feel like I don’t have anything to gain from religion, whether it makes sense or not.
I wouldn’t really consider Benjamin Franklin or Einstein atheists. I haven’t really looked in depth with the rest of them, but it would not be accurate at all to call either of those two atheists as the illustration does. Abraham Lincoln wasn’t really an atheist either.
@The_ATM - Not that my response is incredibly relevant to you post.
@The_ATM - Yeah, Thomas Jefferson really wasn’t either. It seems the person who made that picture must have gotten Theist and Atheist confused.
I am a buddhist/suffi and choose a spirituality that fits my way of thinking and is accepting of all spiritual beliefs. I do not like the restrictions put on people by religion and the way it says one must believe a certain way to be associated with a specific church.
I am an atheist because as a physicist my life is dedicated to exhaustively proving what is already easily observable and obvious, so the idea that I should believe in something so elaborate and unobservable is ludicrous to me.
I’ve always been an atheist. I mean, my parents were raised Catholic/Christian, but they didn’t raise me with a religion. Even when I eventually became aware of the possibility of a god, I didn’t believe in one. I guess it just doesn’t seem plausible to me. I’ve never been in the closet about being an atheist, but there is definitely prejudice against atheists in some cases. Especially about morals. I myself am a very moral person, and others have told me that as well, so… There you go. xD
I’m atheist!
The reason for this is because from a very young age, church always felt like a sham to me. The rituals felt silly and the things I was told sounded either obvious or incredibly ridiculous. As I got older, I started learning about other religions, and then finally about what atheism meant, and I realized that’s what I felt like. Of course, I’ve always had questions, but I always research the answers as best I can.
Hi! I’m an out and proud atheist. For a time I was an evangelical atheist. The only goddess I believe in and worship is myself.
Despite being a Christian for a long while, I never once saw, heard, tasted, touched, smelled, or or felt god. And yes, I searched. But I got through my darkest times without a crutch: god. (That’s how I see it, at least.) In addition, I was at one point jealous of those who had god in their life thus making me bitter. Now, the only things I am bitter about are the following: http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html
This is a meaningful quote:
“Do you believe in God, Andrei? No. Neither do I. But that’s a favorite question of mine. An upside-down question, you know. What do you mean? Well, if I asked people whether they believed in life, they’d never understand what I meant. It’s a bad question. It can mean so much that it really means nothing. So I ask them if they believe in God. And if they say they do – then, I know they don’t believe in life. Why? Because, you see, God – whatever anyone chooses to call God – is one’s highest conception of the highest possible. And whoever places his highest conception above his own possibility thinks very little of himself and his life. It’s a rare gift, you know, to feel reverence for your own life and to want the best, the greatest, the highest possible, here, now, for your very own. To imagine a heaven and then not to dream of it, but to demand it.” -We the living
Thank you for asking.
I’m an atheist. I just don’t buy the stories, they all sound unbelievably unrealistic. Man has been creating gods since the dawn of time, because he needed an explanation for things he didn’t understand. Why should the gods today be any different than the gods of the Romans? It’s the same general idea.
@theloniusmarx - Very well said!
@chadwilly - I can totally understand that
@s0Fy - Thank you for the wonderful comment
@mommachatter - Thank you for being respectful
@vickevlar - Thank you for your comment. I know there are places for polls that can be embeded or something but then that just gives a number and not real communication between people.
@lifeonacitybusem4 - thank you for your comment
@Perstephonme - Thank you for replying
@SerenaDante - Thanks for replying. I believe I had read on your site one time about your being an atheist but I wasn’t sure.
@AncoraImparo - thank you for your interesting reply. I will visit the link you posted. Have a great week.
@Qingbao - Thank you for commenting
@Kristenmomof3 - You too!
“‘Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?’
Epicurus
In Theology, this is called the Problem of Evil. It addresses the obvious existence of evil that supposedly clashes with the view of an omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), and omnibenevolent (all-good) God.
The logic can be characterized as a reductio ad absurdum (reduction to the absurd) argument, also known as proof by contradiction. We take a premise we believe is true and assume the opposite. Then, using concise, flawless logic, if we arrive at an absurd conclusion then we can conclude that the problem lies not in the logic but in the assumed premise. The proposition is thus disproven since its implications lead to an absurd, illogical conclusion.
Trying to prove that God does not exist with reductio ad absurdum:
1. God exists.
2. God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good.
3. An all-good being would want to prevent evil.
4. An all-knowing being would know how all evils would come to exist.
5. An all-powerful being would have the power to prevent those evils from existing.
6. A being who would want to prevent evil, knows how to prevent all evils, and has the power to prevent all evils would prevent such evils from existing.
∴ If God exists, evil should not exist.
Evil exists →←
The conclusion, ∴ (line 7), that states evil should not exist is absurd. We all know that evil does, indeed, exist. Thus, evil exists (line 8) is a contradiction to the entire argument, notated by the mathematical symbol of contradiction, →← (two arrows butting heads). In logic, contradiction is the up tack symbol: ⊥.
Since the conclusion is absurd but the logic works out, the remaining explanation is that the assumption of God existing is wrong. God, therefore, must not exist.”
The above is a weblog that I just posted that I thought was relevant. This isn’t the entire reason that I am atheist but it does contribute. For me, even if the logic behind evil and God contradicting each other can be rebutted (historically it was through some sort of free will argument), I haven’t really found a justification for natural evil: hurricanes that kill people, etc. (Sorry, Philosophy college student here).
To look at the world and see what I think is a mess and say “wow, God is so good” is rather insulting, I’d say. That and just personally, I’ve seen too many Christians who use the Philosophy of Optimism: God did this for a reason, etc. and remain passive instead of doing something when they could (an inductive argument that shouldn’t persuade anyone to atheism). One classic example of that (a congressman from Illinois who takes a rather passive stance in environmentalism because God is behind “everything”) is listed below as an example for something else I dislike: being active in forcing your personal religion to influence others and policy! And I think there is hypocrisy between religions too: when Muslims do it, why do Christians freak out when they basically do the same thing. The only difference is how valid they view other religions. That is a rather bigoted stance I think.
I really have no problems with Christians until they try to influence others with their beliefs. Sorry, scratch that, I meant religion in general. Christianity comes to mind because I live in America and Christian politicians really annoy the hell out of me (not because they are Christian but some of them just play the God card over and over again). I strongly believe in the separation between Church and State and thus am against situations like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5yNZ1U37sE
The congressman from Illinois believes global warming is not a problem because ultimately it will not be a man-induced problem that destroys this earth according to the Bible. This is at a US House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment meeting! That is absurd in my opinion.
Ultimately, I think people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe in the privacy of their homes. And I must say that my biggest problem with religion is the evangelizing aspect of it. But I am an atheist, sorry for the rambling!
I’m an atheist…ish. I like to refer to myself as an agnostic atheist, meaning that I don’t believe in a higher power, but I also recognize that it’s impossible to prove that there isn’t some sort of supernatural force out there. It’s kind of like saying that fairies don’t exist though…you know deep down that it’s true, but you can’t really prove it.
Also, I’m not entirely convinced that ghosts don’t exist. That causes a bit of a problem.
@polemicallyinclined - i like your dr. who! =)
erg again with using the lack of category as a category in itself X( it is coherent but… yeh…
i am an atheist. i’m also nihilistic, that means i find logic the only reasonable assumption; meaning, logic is inherently true, and is a worthy assumption- no other assumption is. if a concept is not able to be derived to math/logic it is indecent to be held in public.
am i in the closet about it? not really, but i don’t talk to people so maybe.
I have only considered myself an atheist for about 10 years or so and it was a long and painful journey. I grew up in a strict, fundamental Christian family and I’m the only one out of five who ended up rejecting faith in god. I spent 14 years trying to be a good Christian and wanting desperately to hear god’s voice or feel his presence in my life. I never did. Even through my pleading, my searching, and my studying I never found him anywhere. Once I was out from under the thumb of my parents I began to question my own beliefs and think critically about what I was taught. By reading the Bible in depth and listening to apologetic arguments I gradually considered myself agnostic and then finally atheist. My family knows and they’re all very disappointed. My friends know and some of them try to convert me. My children know that I’ll never tell them what to believe.
You can view my statement of belief on my YouTube channel here.
@explosive - When did I say atheism was a religion? I don’t think it is. The poster who happens to be Christian asked WHY so I answered breifly and a to the point as possible why I reject the theism she follows.
Buddhism doesn’t have a personal God like the Abrahmic religions of the west but it has many dogma’s and has evolved into something very theistic. My co-worker prays to Buddha and from speaking with her it appears more like Christianity than the Words of Sidhartha I have read. I think he would have thought such a thing was silly. Hunduism has a Creationism myth with the Dream of Brahma. I would clasify Hinduism as Polytheistic.
A-theism is mearly that…..not adhearing to any Theism.
@versatil - Doesn’t solve the problem. I have had many many people try and explain the solution to this problem and usually it is done by trying to get incredibly complex and convoluted. However, they as you didn’t give a rational answer.
@tendollar4ways - I am atheist. I am because most religions contradict themselves and i try to be rational and i cannot accept things that seem painfully irrational to me.
You seem to be saying atheism is the antithesis of religion, when in fact it’s a belief in which several religions are based. That’s why there atheistic religions. i don’t know where you get your misinformation from, but atheism is a disbelief in a creator god, and therefore there are atheistic religions. But atheism itself is not a religion. I didn’t mention any Abrahamic religions. I listed all the atheistic religions, e.g. all the religions without a creator god. Anything less than a creator isn’t a genuine god in the first place. You don’t subscribe to any religion, even atheistic ones.
@explosive - You appear to be wanting to play word games to what ends I can only speculate.
I just went and googled the definition of Atheism and Theism and they were simple answers. The dictionary says: Theism is a beleif in God and Atheism is a disbeleif in God. If we are going to use the Dictionary as the Beginning and the End final word…I will concede you are correct. If we go with a less simplistic and rigid definitions which I think is the wise way to go in this case….Theism would would also include Buddhism, Taoism etc as there are many Dogmas, rituals, rites etc that go along with the label.
What up with the semantics? What is the point?
@tendollar4ways - And you’re avoiding the issue and trying to divert my attention to something inconsequential to the discussion because you have no valid argument.
The Sanskrit word nirisvaravada translates at atheism and means disbelief in a creator god. It does not require disbelief in anything else that might be a “god,” but for many anything less than a creator isn’t a genuine god in the first place.
Buddhism is widely regarded as an atheistic religion. Buddhist scriptures either do not promote or actively reject the existence of a creator god, the existence of “lesser” gods who are the source of morality, and that humans owe any duties to any gods.
For Jains, every soul or spiritual being is worthy of the exact same praise. Because of this, Jains do not worship any “higher” spiritual beings like gods nor do they worship or pay homage to any idols. Jains believe that the universe has always existed and will always exist, so there is no need for any sort of creator god.
On a functional level, at least, both Confucianism and Taoism can be considered atheistic. Neither is founded on faith in a creator god like Christianity and Islam are. Neither promote the existence of such a god, either. Confucian texts describe a “Heaven” which is a transcendent, personal power of some sort.
There are humanistic religious groups today which endorse belief systems that focus on the needs of human beings here and now while rejecting (or at least minimizing) supernatural beliefs generally. A significant percentage of the members of Unitarian Universalist churches are atheists, though these churches also include Christians, pagans, and others. Members of Ethical Culture groups may or may not believe in any gods; some don’t even regard Ethical Culture as being a religious group for themselves though it is considered a religion under the law. Religious humanism creates a religious context without gods.
@explosive - Is your point atheism is a religion? Also do you not consider Buddhism and all the break the circle, reincarnation and attain nirvana not theism?
@tendollar4ways - I totally agree with you
@explosive - I am not sure why you seem to be trying so hard to argue with tendollar4ways
@mgwlee - Thank you for answering the post
@shpadoinkle12 - I hope you don’t mind my asking, but how do ghosts cause an issue? You don’t have to answer if you dont want to
@lenybobsyouruncle - thank you for your comment
@CoderHead - Thank you for answering. I think your friends should be able to accept you for you if they are your friends.
@versatil - have you ever listened to Dawkins?
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7yf9GJUfU
Part 2: (Q&A)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_z85O0P2M
@Kristenmomof3 - Thanks…I didn’t want to get into this arguement again with @versatil - honestly, I kinda sick (cold) and don’t feel like getting into this one.
@tendollar4ways - The problem you mention does not exist in the first place, you’re the one putting it there. You are looking at knowledge of the future as deterministic while it is more like knowledge of history.You’re going to have to explain to me how knowledge of history vanquishes free will/choice.
edt: i should have mentioned it does not exist for me as a Muslim theologically. did not mean to sound rude/harsh.
@Kristenmomof3 - Is there a transcription for it?
@tendollar4ways - Hope you get well soon!
I have a spiritual philosophy that probably lies somewhere amongst Christianity, Agnosticism, Atheism, and Buddhism. I do believe in God, but not necessarily the one in the Bible. And I reconcile that belief with science like this: he’s the catalyst of the big bang, and since then he’s been sitting back watching things happen. Maybe he has interefered with human existance, maybe not. If he has, then perhaps the Bible is a kind of interpretive record of those interferences. I take the Bible with a grain of salt and try to pull out just the principals of what each story tells (i.e., the golden rule). But I also believe that each living thing has a kind of soul and purpose. Whereas some think that only humans can go to heaven, I believe that everything that lives goes to a kind of heaven, and that only humans (who possess free will and can make concious choice of right and wrong) can be punished in an afterlife or hellish sort of place.
The atheism link is a bit harder to explain. As I said, I believe he’s a catalyst, but that the universe, galaxies, and our solar system came in to existance much as modern science can explain it. So, God made the first bits of stuff (or stardust, as Carl Sagan might have put it) that then, due to physics, made all the other stuff over the billions of years our universe has been in existance. As I view God taking a back seat approach, it can be viewed as a similarity to atheism. Yes, he started it, but he didn’t force anything to happen after that.
I’ll say that I was atheist at one point in my life not too long ago, but it was lonely, cold, and depressing. After some thought, I was able to reconcile with myself that I could believe in God and science, and that it didn’t have to be an absolute one or the other decision.
@Kristenmomof3 - I’m trying to skip ahead in seconds to get to the various arguments. 20 minutes in he uses the story of Abraham (as) being commanded to slaughter his son (as) as an example of us picking and choosing our morality if we at all get our morality from scripture. I don’t get his methodology at all. Firstly, it is as if he was suggesting that if we were to follow scripture we were all commanded to slaughter our children, which is never the case, anywhere, probably in any of our faiths. Secondly it’s ironic that he uses this example, stories of Abraham are riddled with themes of “I don’t understand. Help me understand.” and responses in essence being you *can’t* understand, just trust Me, i.e. our intellect has its limitations. He concludes with “[...] pushing against the limits of understanding [...] we may eventually discover that there are no limits.” Wow. I really hope he is just being hopeful. It’s as if he’s picturing that man will evolve into a floating brain. I don’t get how people can take as premise that the rest of our physical components have their limitations, and fail to apply this to our brain as well.
49 minutes into the q-a is as close as i’ve seen any of this get to the subject of free will/choice. i had this discussion in brief on tgwiy’s blog. someone basically said if a god exists he can’t be fair because religion is determined by basically geography, family, etc. It was odd finding that argument from an atheist. While I have no statistics to support the following claim I wouldn’t doubt that most atheists come from a sort of theistic background themselves. One can argue it was the influence they got outside of the family, not so much free will that led them to become atheists, but then even if that case is entertained it is still them doing the choosing of one or the other. and the very same people utilizing that argument would not be in denial about their ability to choose, let alone the choices they’ve made (as you can possibly find/feel in the comments of this very entry).
53 minutes in – leaving the religion is not quite an option. this is in effect the same thing as above (in regards to hell/heaven, people being born into religion, the value and status of choice). Islamically at least in the most difficult situations if you have knowledge of the belief it can be kept within, an internal, private thing if your life is threatened. if you didn’t have knowledge that’s okay, too. from what i understand in other theologies what you are outwardly has to match internally, so if you were to lie about your belief just to preserve safety it would be not be acceptable/tolerable (and the problem here being also if they were to be honest about their disbelief, well, same if not worse problem, thus this entry I suppose?).
But I haven’t found anything that deals with the subject of abrahamic faiths, at least Islam, being contradictory to free will and free choice. I feel like i just wasted over an hour of my time =|
@versatil - I don’t know. He has a book. but I don’t have a transcript for the lecture
@Kristenmomof3 - Eh, I just have a hard time fitting the idea of ghosts into my belief that there’s nothing beyond the physical world. It could very well be that we just haven’t found a good explanation for certain kinds of phenomena…or that I watch way too many horror movies…
I have a friend who has claimed to see some pretty freaky stuff though. She’s had a couple recurring “encounters” and she’s not the type to lie about things like that, so I’m inclined to believe her even if I can’t come up with any rational explanation for the things she’s seen…
I’m an atheist, simply because science makes more sense, I was raised in a family of atheists, and I see no reason to be christian or otherwise.
My friends once tried to convert me. I was willing to go to church with them.. except that they both didn’t want me at their church, (to the point of giving me the wrong address, and crying when they heard I planned to come) and didn’t want me at all ( we don’t talk. ).I don’t bring up my atheism because I don’t want to cause a fuss. I know my “friends” would freak out if I obsessed over atheism like they obsess over God and everything.
I’m an atheist.
Thanks for making this post. I can agree, it’s intimidating to be an atheist in America today. Did you know atheists are the most hated and distrusted minority in America today?
I believe that the concept of a higher power is purely a psychological phenomenon. It makes perfect sense, people are trying to rationalize existence, why are we here? It’s seriously comforting to think that it’s for a larger purpose, and to think that life will continue after our inevitable death. The ephemeral nature of human life is terrifying in some regards. Likewise, I think religion was created as a primitive law. Why shouldn’t you kill? “Because it isn’t nice” wasn’t cutting it, so “Because you will suffer past death” was put in place, and it worked.
This isn’t to say I’m a pessimist, as a lot of skeptics and atheists are accused of. I think the world is absolutely beautiful, and even moreso because it wasn’t created by a god. Nature is amazing, the fact that we have evolved to become humans capable of emotion and intellect is nothing short of amazing. The power of humans is also incredible, look at this world we built. I’m constantly amazed by what I see, but not because of any “miracles”, that really cheapens it to me.
A recommended short read is this essay by Penn Jillette, There Is No God, which sums up how I feel quite nicely.