March 29, 2011
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Are you good without God? Millions are.
“Spreading the Good News About Atheism”: Why We Need Atheist Ad Campaigns | | AlterNet
Atheist ad campaigns are everywhere. Around the U.S. and around the world, atheist organizations have been buying space on billboards, buses, TV and more, with messages ranging from the mild-mannered “Don’t believe in God? You are not alone” to the in-your-face “You know it’s a myth.”
Conservative religionists often object vehemently to the very concept of atheist advertising: in many cases trying to get the ad campaigns stopped altogether, and frequently even vandalizing the billboards.
Not all atheist ads campaigns are created equal. Different atheist organizations create different ad campaigns, with different goals, and different strategies for achieving those goals. So when you ask, “Why do atheists have to advertise?”, the first question you have to answer is, “Which atheists?”
Some atheist ad campaigns, for instance, are purely about visibility. The sole message behind them: “Atheists exist.” The folks behind these campaigns know that visibility is key to acceptance of atheists — just like it’s key to acceptance of LGBT people. Simply getting people familiar with atheists, and getting them comfortable with the concept of atheism, goes a long way to countering anti-atheist prejudice and hostility. What’s more, the folks behind these campaigns know that plenty of non-believers feel isolated — cut off from family and friends if they’re open about their atheism, hiding in secrecy and silence if they’re not — and they want these people know they aren’t alone. It’s like the annual Coming Out Day campaign for LGBT people.
Other ad campaigns are about information. They’re there to counter myths about atheists. They’re not just telling you, “Atheists exist” — they’re telling you, “Atheists exist, and are good, happy people.” Misinformation and bigotry against atheists abound, and many atheist ad campaigns — including the current “Living Without Religion” one from the Center for Inquiry — are aimed at countering this misinformation. They’re aimed at letting the world know that, contrary to popular opinion, atheists have morality, meaning, joy, and hope in our lives… just as much as religious believers.
Still other campaigns are trying to gain new members for their atheist groups. They aren’t necessarily trying to persuade anyone out of religion… but they know there are non-believers in their communities, people who feel isolated, people who may even think they’re the only ones who think they way they do. And they want those folks to know that atheist organizations are available: to provide community, support, education and entertainment, or simply to provide reinforcement for the idea that they aren’t crazy or immoral for thinking the way they do. Like a softball team distributing flyers for new players… or AARP advertising for new members, and letting you know about the wonderful programs they have available for people over 50.
And still others are, in fact, actively trying to change people’s minds about religion. They’re trying to persuade people that atheism is, you know, correct: that there is no God, and people should stop believing… or, at the very least, consider the possibility that their beliefs might be mistaken. Or they’re trying to persuade people to respect the separation of church and state, even if they believe in God. Like Pepsi trying to persuade you to buy their products instead of Coke’s… or Marriage Equality trying to get you to vote against Prop 8.
If it’s okay for Democrats to run ads saying, “Vote Democratic”? If it’s okay for the Boston Red Sox to run ads saying, “Go Sox”? If it’s okay for the Red Hot Organization to run ads saying, “Safe sex is hot sex”? If it’s okay for Greenpeace to run ads saying (seriously) “There’s probably no cod, now let’s stop overfishing & think of the future”? Then why on Earth is it not okay for the Center for Inquiry to run ads saying, “You don’t need God — to hope, to care, to love, to live”? Or even for American Atheists to run ads saying, “You know it’s a myth”?
Why should religion, alone among all other ideas, be entitled to a free ride… free from criticism and questioning and the uncomfortable reminder that not everyone in the world agrees with it?
And in fact, when you look at the ugly responses that atheist ad campaigns typically get, the need for them becomes even more obvious. Religious believers have called the ad campaigns “aggressive,” “hateful,” “offensive,” “a disgrace,” “political correctness gone amok,” “terrible,” “disturbing,” and “dangerous.” They’ve said that they “have had their sensibilities assaulted” by the ads, that their beliefs were being “attacked” and “vandalized” by them. They’ve suggested that someone “accidentally burn” the billboards. They’ve equated atheist advertisers with Fred Phelps. And these responses are hardly isolated: they’re very much in line with general American sentiments about atheists, which view us as the most disliked and distrusted minority in America.
Of course atheists need visibility — lots of people are bigoted about us. Of course we need to spread information about who we are — lots of people are ignorant about us. Of course we need to let other atheists know that support networks are available — lots of people are hateful about us. Of course we need to advocate for separation of church and state — lots of people want to make it actually illegal for us to advertise. The very hostility that the atheist ad campaigns generate proves why we need them so badly.
Atheists aren’t the ones trying to shut up religious believers. When religious ads go up on buses and billboards and TV, we roll our eyes and go about our business. We don’t agree with the advertisers… but we don’t try to stop them from advertising. Sure, we’re trying to get religious messages out of government — no Ten Commandments in City Halls, no creationism in public schools, no prayers to start city council meetings, etc. — but that’s a separation of church and state issue. (One that works for religious believers just as much as it does for atheists, I might point out.) When it comes to religious groups hawking their message on their own private property — or on other people’s private property they’ve rented with their own money — we may think it’s obnoxious or silly, but we totally respect their right to do it.
And the fact that so many believers don’t respect atheists’ right to hawk our message? It just shows how weak their message is — and how afraid they are of having it contradicted
To read the entire article http://www.alternet.org/story/150399/%22spreading_the_good_news_about_atheism%22%3A_why_we_need_atheist_ad_campaigns?page=entire
Comments (42)
I like this.
I’m not good without God – I love Jesus.
@Randy7777 - So if you woke up tomorrow morning and found – without a doubt in your mind – that god and Jesus don’t exist, how would that affect the way you live your life? Why would anything change? Is your notion of god the only thing keeping you from being the most horrible person on the planet?
Great article! I think if religious people were really as “good” and secure in their faith as they claimed they were, they wouldn’t have any problems with atheists advertising =)
@SerenaDante - I’m very secure about my faith and I believe there is a God. I have so much faith in Him, and having faith in a higher being brings a lot of peace of mind. Just because other people don’t believe in God doesn’t mean they have to blatantly bash others about believing. That’s why we get upset – not because one advertises. So… call me a crazy Christian, I really don’t care… but don’t bash my beliefs because one believes in something else… or I should say that one believes in not believing.
[When religious ads go up on buses and billboards and TV, we roll our eyes and go about our business. We don't agree with the advertisers... but we don't try to stop them from advertising.]
[And the fact that so many believers don't respect atheists' right to hawk our message? It just shows how weak their message is -- and how afraid they are of having it contradicted.]
^ PERFECTLY stated.
@Randy7777 - Ummm…so what? What does that have to do with the subject of this post? How annoying.
@LitlKittyKat - No part of “You don’t need God — to hope, to care, to love, to live” is bashing you. It’s my belief, and if you’re insulted by that, then you are in fact the one who is doing the bashing here. You are so intolerant of my beliefs that you can’t even fathom my expressing them equally to yours. Same with “You know it’s a myth” and most of these other advertisements. Not a single one of them is saying, “Christians are losers” or anything of that sort. (For that matter, not a single one of them is referring to Christians at all, since in case you weren’t aware, being atheist means lacking belief in a whole bunch of different gods, not just yours.)
It’s like I said. Maybe you’re secure in your faith, but you sure don’t follow the message of “goodness” and “tolerance” that your religion asks of you. The idea that you’re right and everyone else is wrong is so ingrained in you that you can’t even see how someone expressing an opinion different from yours isn’t an insult.
Good without god ad campaigns were launched in fort worth Texas back in December on the “T” buses. Religious leaders (Christians) got so pissed off that they boycotted and urged the public to boycott public transit. They were offended that the “T” would run anti-god ad campaigns, yet, christian ads have been running theirs on there for years. These people are hypocrites, plain and simple. Not only that, but they chartered their own buses to follow EVERY “immoral” atheist ad with their own saying “better with god” or some bs like that. Sheep will always be sheep?
In NYC and other areas, good without god ad campaigns are constantly torn down and defiled.
What is wrong with christians? If their faith was really *so* strong, why are they so threatened by some dumb campaign? Every day on the way to school, I passed a christian church with a sign that read: SANTA=SATAN. Did I ever defile that ridiculous message? No. And they think atheists are immoral?
Good post, thanks for writing.
@SerenaDante - How do you really know how I live? I wasn’t speaking about YOU in general, I was speaking about the many amounts of people who tell me I’m stupid for believing in a “false God.” I’ve never said I was intolerant about your beliefs – where did I say anything about bashing you? I also NEVER said I was right and you’re wrong… I was expression my opinion on faith in God – and yes, you can talk about every God out there, but there is nothing wrong with believing in something.
I specifically wrote: ”Just because other people don’t believe in God doesn’t mean they have to blatantly bash others about believing. That’s why we get upset – not because one advertises.”I don’t you think you understand how many people will tell me I’m WRONG for believing in what I believe in. Not once did I ever say you were wrong for believing. I just said to be tolerant. I wasn’t even insulted until you started telling me I don’t live the way I have chosen to live – which has consisted of many moral values and good faith.
On the flip side, there are militant atheists every bit as loopy as the fundamentalist religious nuts (think: Westboro Baptist Church) who actively seek to attack anyone expressing a belief in faith or religion with ad hominem barbs.
In other words, I can see how any atheist advertising movement might encounter opposition.
I wish folks on both sides would consider what face they’re presenting to the world in representing their beliefs.
@LitlKittyKat - Did you read the article? This entire article was about advertisements that atheists make. When you replied to me, because I had read the article, I assumed that you were talking about people bashing you in the sense of atheists putting up beliefs such as “you know it’s a myth” on billboards. Is it wrong to say that you consider something like that bashing towards you? If that’s wrong, fine – I misread your reply to me. Though I don’t know why you replied to me at all if you weren’t actually interested in talking about what I had to say or what this article had to say.
However, if you do find something like that insulting, then that’s a clear example of intolerance. Every day, I see religious billboards and signs that have the same basic message of “you know it’s NOT a myth.” If an atheist decides to put up the opposite thing and you think it’s bashing, then yes, you are intolerant. Why? Because you can’t even fathom that the opposite opinion is a valid opinion. You automatically consider it an insult to yourself. How can you be tolerant if you can’t see an opposing view without being insulted?
@Automaton_Emotion - I think you nailed it with that comment. It doesn’t matter what religion (or lack thereof) you’re trying to promote. Militarist tripe is not the way to go. If anything, it pushes people even further away from the viewpoint of choice, even within their own religion. I wish people would understand that.
It frustrates me so often to see that the people bitching about atheists being open about their beliefs are the same people who preach “loving thy neighbor.”
I’ve always had faith, and I’ve never felt any need whatsoever to preach it, advertise it, or try to change anyone’s mind. I dated a guy who several months in revealed he was an atheist. I was bothered that he felt the need to “hide” it from me, when I didn’t hide my beliefs from him, but I wasn’t upset at him for his choice of religious beliefs. He ended up being the ruin of our relationship because HE couldn’t respect my beliefs and he constantly questioned me and in a sense mocked me. A few years later he emailed me to let me know he had been baptized and apologized for treating me the way he did. His words “I assumed because you believed in God that you were a hypocrit, judgmental, etc, but as it turns out…. you were far from it. I was the one that was everything I accused you of being.”
My point is, this article is VERY biased and one sided, and makes generalizations that causes the author to lose credibility in my eyes. I am put off by anyone who tries to push a belief onto me under the disguise of “getting the word out” as this article seems to do. We CHOOSE what we believe. A lesbian doesn’t choose to be attracted to a woman, anymore than I choose to be attracted to a man. I do, however, choose to believe in God. An atheist chooses not to. We make choices in life……….but should try very hard not to judge others or put them down simply because they make a different choice.
Define “good.”
@awholenewbeginning - Moral, well behaved, honorable, etc (I find it weird that someone would ask for good to be defined. Really, you don’t know what good means????)
@Randy7777 - I am still waiting for you to reply to @CoderHead ‘s question “Is your notion of god the only thing keeping you from being the most horrible person on the planet?”
@Kristenmomof3 - My point is that not everyone is even going to define “moral, well behaved, honorable” in the same way. It’s too subjective.
@SerenaDante - Exactly
@LitlKittyKat - I do not see how the billboards would be in anyway bashing you. They don’t say Christians are stupid. They say things like good without god. They don’t even say “christian god”
Atheists do not believe in any god. Yes, that includes the christian god but it also includes Adad, Adapa, Adrammelech, Aeon, Agasaya, Aglibol, Ahriman, Ahura Mazda,
Ahurani, Ai-ada, Al-Lat, Aja, Aka, Alalu, Al-Lat, Amm, Al-Uzza (El-’Ozza
or Han-Uzzai), An, Anahita, Anath (Anat), Anatu, Anbay, Anshar, Anu,
Anunitu, An-Zu, Apsu, Aqhat, Ararat, Arinna, Asherali, Ashnan,
Ashtoreth, Ashur, Astarte, Atar, Athirat, Athtart, Attis, Aya, Baal
(Bel), Baalat (Ba’Alat), Baau, Basamum, Beelsamin, Belit-Seri, Beruth,
Borak, Broxa, Caelestis, Cassios, Lebanon, Antilebanon, and Brathy,
Chaos, Chemosh, Cotys, Cybele, Daena, Daevas, Dagon, Damkina, Dazimus,
Derketo, Dhat-Badan, Dilmun, Dumuzi (Du’uzu), Duttur, Ea, El, Endukugga,
Enki, Enlil, Ennugi, Eriskegal, Ereshkigal (Allatu), Eshara, Eshmun,
Firanak, Fravashi, Gatamdug, Genea, Genos, Gestinanna, Gula, Hadad,
Hannahanna, Hatti, Hea, Hiribi, The Houri, Humban, Innana, Ishkur,
Ishtar, Ithm, Jamshid or Jamshyd, Jehovah, Jesus, Kabta, Kadi,
Kamrusepas, Ki (Kiki), Kingu, Kolpia, Kothar-u-Khasis, Lahar, Marduk,
Mari, Meni, Merodach, Misor, Moloch, Mot, Mushdama, Mylitta, Naamah,
Nabu (Nebo), Nairyosangha, Nammu, Namtaru, Nanna, Nebo, Nergal, Nidaba,
Ninhursag or Nintu, Ninlil, Ninsar, Nintur, Ninurta, Pa, Qadshu,
Rapithwin, Resheph (Mikal or Mekal), Rimmon, Sadarnuna, Shahar, Shalim,
Shamish, Shapshu, Sheger, Sin, Siris (Sirah), Taautos, Tammuz, Tanit,
Taru, Tasimmet, Telipinu, Tiamat, Tishtrya, Tsehub, Utnapishtim, Utu,
Wurusemu, Yam, Yarih (Yarikh), Yima, Zaba, Zababa, Zam, Zanahary
(Zanaharibe), Zarpandit, Zarathustra, Zatavu, Zazavavindrano, Ziusudra,
Zu (Imdugud), Zurvan, Abarta, Abna, Abnoba, Aine, Airetech,Akonadi, Amaethon, Ameathon, An
Cailleach, Andraste, Antenociticus, Aranrhod, Arawn, Arianrod, Artio,
Badb,Balor, Banbha, Becuma, Belatucadros, Belatu-Cadros, Belenus,
Beli,Belimawr, Belinus, Bendigeidfran, Bile, Blathnat, Blodeuwedd,
Boann, Bodus,Bormanus, Borvo, Bran, Branwen, Bres, Brigid, Brigit,
Caridwen, Carpantus,Cathbadh, Cecht, Cernach, Cernunnos, Cliodna,
Cocidius, Conchobar, Condatis, Cormac,Coronus,Cosunea, Coventina,
Crarus,Creidhne, Creirwy, Cu Chulainn, Cu roi, Cuda,
Cuill,Cyhiraeth,Dagda, Damona, Dana, Danu, D’Aulnoy,Dea Artio, Deirdre ,
Dewi, Dian, Diancecht, Dis Pater, Donn, Dwyn, Dylan, Dywel,Efnisien,
Elatha, Epona, Eriu, Esos, Esus, Eurymedon,Fedelma, Fergus, Finn, Fodla,
Goewyn, Gog, Goibhniu, Govannon , Grainne, Greine,Gwydion, Gwynn ap
Nudd, Herne, Hu’Gadarn, Keltoi,Keridwen, Kernunnos,Ler, Lir, Lleu Llaw
Gyffes, Lludd, Llyr, Llywy, Luchta, Lug, Lugh,Lugus, Mabinogion,Mabon,
Mac Da Tho, Macha, Magog, Manannan, Manawydan, Maponos, Math, Math Ap
Mathonwy, Medb, Moccos,Modron, Mogons, Morrig, Morrigan,
Nabon,Nantosuelta, Naoise, Nechtan, Nedoledius,Nehalennia, Nemhain,
Net,Nisien, Nodens, Noisi, Nuada, Nwywre,Oengus, Ogma, Ogmios, Oisin,
Pach,Partholon, Penard Dun, Pryderi, Pwyll, Rhiannon, Rosmerta, Samhain,
Segidaiacus, Sirona, Sucellus, Sulis, Taliesin, Taranis, Teutates, The
Horned One,The Hunt, Treveni,Tyne, Urien, Ursula of the Silver Host,
Vellaunus, Vitiris, White Lady, Amaunet, Amen, Amon, Amun, Anat, Anqet, Antaios, Anubis, Anuket, Apep,
Apis, Astarte, Aten, Aton, Atum, Bastet, Bat, Buto, Duamutef, Duamutef,
Hapi, Har-pa-khered, Hathor, Hauhet, Heket, Horus, Huh, Imset, Isis,
Kauket, Kebechsenef, Khensu, Khepri, Khnemu, Khnum, Khonsu, Kuk, Maahes,
Ma’at, Mehen, Meretseger, Min, Mnewer, Mut, Naunet, Nefertem, Neith,
Nekhbet, Nephthys, Nun, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, Ra , Re, Renenet, Sakhmet,
Satet, Seb, Seker, Sekhmet, Serapis, Serket, Set, Seth, Shai, Shu, Shu,
Sia, Sobek, Sokar, Tefnut, Tem, Thoth,Aegir, Aesir, Alfrigg, Audumbla, Aurgelmir, Balder, Berchta, Bergelmir,
Bor, Bragi, Brisings, Buri, Etin, Fenris, Forseti, Frey, Freyja, Frigga,
Gefion, Gerda, Gode, Gymir, Harke, Heimdall, Hel, Hermod, Hodur, Holda,
Holle, Honir, Hymir, Idun, Jormungandr, Ljolsalfs, Loki, Magni, Mimir,
Mistarblindi, Muspel, Nanna, Nanni, Nerthus, Njord, Norns, Odin,
Perchta, Ran, Rig, Segyn, Sif, Skadi, Skirnir, Skuld, Sleipnir, Surt,
Svadilfari, tanngniotr, tanngrisnr, Thiassi, Thor, Thrud, Thrudgelmir,
Thrym, Thurs, Tyr, Uller, Urd, Vali, Vali, Valkyries, Vanir, Ve,
Verdandi, Vidar, Wode, Ymir and the list goes on and on and on. This is just a short list of the gods out there.
If you are a theist. One must wonder, why you don’t believe in any of these gods.
Your god is just one of the many many many that atheists don’t believe in.
@awholenewbeginning - so are you saying you disagree with the Good without god? Do you believe that god is needed for people to be good? So you think all atheists are not good?
@Kristenmomof3 - If I didn’t have Jesus in my life I wouldn’t care. It would be like I was before I was saved – a jerk.
If atheists want to was their money on advertising, I think they should go right ahead. If I want to maintain my right to promote my religion, I need to accept others have a right to promote their religion (or nonreligious views) as well. Those religious groups opposed to the campaigns need to realize, by fighting against such a campaign they will be hurting their own rights as well.
I do think that a lot of religious people do some pretty unfair and terrible things to stamp out competing ideas, but lets be honest– neither atheists or theists are as innocent and generalizable as you make them out to be. Consider how many atheists have been arguing that morality doesn’t require a religion, mostly by appealing to our common humanity. Given this COMMON HUMANity, we should recognize that both atheists and theists are capable of being horrible, intolerant little bastards and prove it quite frequently in any number of ways– we are, after all, human. Every one of us is afraid of, violent towards, or condescendingly dismissive of ideas that contradict our worldviews, and to claim that any person or group of people is exempt from this ass-hattery is completely absurd. Let me repeat that, ABSURD. Yes, I’m tired of intolerant religious fanatics who shove their beliefs down people’s throats and threaten them with eternal damnation for simply breathing, but I’m equally if not more tired of atheists who claim to be some super objective, cognitively developed beings that supposedly represent science and suddenly know what’s best for society by being offensive. If either ‘side’ of you is as objective and/or fantastically right as you think you are, you’d realize we’re all just people who are clinging to silly identities and are either attacking or belittling opposing ideas because our fragile minds can’t handle contradiction for shit. If you’re a super-science atheist, this should be obvious as hell to you given even the slightest knowledge regarding something called PSYCHOLOGY, and you should give it your best effort to actually be objective and see things from beyond your narrow perspective to realize that we are all pretty much exactly the same. If you’re religious, you should perhaps consult your corresponding book and find where it tells you that we are all children of God, that harmony is the answer, or any of the other thousands of analogous ideas that basically scream at you, “we are all the same, don’t be an asshole.” Sure, any one of us could probably find some pretty convincing evidence that we are fundamentally opposed to each other, but you could be using that same miracle of a brain to move on and promote something more productive, say– happiness? It really doesn’t matter whether you cling to your fragile identity because you read it in a book or created it with your amazing reasoning abilities, be decent human beings, for humanity’s sake!
@Randy7777 - That’s sickening. That being the case, I’m glad you “found god” so the rest of us don’t have to sleep with one eye open.
Is it weird that I get offended at both? Boards that say “God is a lie” and boards that say “if you don’t believe in God you will go to Hell.” I think both are offensive, distasteful and millitant.
@wearywalden - Wasting money? How is this ad campaign wasting money? Research shows that atheists are the most hated and distrusted minority group. (univ of Minn) Only 45% of Americans would vote for an Atheist presidential candidate. George HW Bush claimed atheists were not citizens of this country. There are no “out” atheists in congress. Atheists make up a grand 3.8 % of the world’s population.
If these ad campaigns could make some lonely atheist feel less isolated and alone in sea of christians, they would be well worth it.
@AmeliaHart - No, it’s not weird, that’s exactly how I feel.
Kristen, i like this quote above: “Why should religion, alone among all other ideas, be entitled to a free ride… free from criticism and questioning and the uncomfortable reminder that not everyone in the world agrees with it?
@SerenaDante - agree. good point.
@Automaton_Emotion - another good point about all sides.
@AncoraImparo - Oh, you have a good point. I was not looking at it like that. I simply used the word wasted because it seemed like there would be so many better ways to use the money.
@wearywalden - Oh, ok. Well you have a good point, too. The money could be used in many other areas.
@SerenaDante - I think you might misunderstand the motivation of some religious folk who are opposed to this type of anti-god/God advertising. I’d suggest, giving them the benefit of the doubt, that it’s probably not that they are insecure about their individual faith. They may be greatly secure in their individual faith. They’re concern is most likely not for their own lives to be free of offense but for the lives of others to be free of untruth (or what they may see to be untruth). Which, admittedly, shouldn’t be a threat or detrimentally offensive to them. And they may not see it as a threat. But that doesn’t mean they want it around. I’d just challenge the idea that theists who are against this advertising are against it for the reason of insecurity of their own faith. Also, I’m not supporting the anti-atheist advertising or anything. I’m just throwing out an idea.
I do agree with you that if religious folks, or let’s say Christians, were faithful to Christ then they would prove Christ and his kingdom to be more powerful than some fleeting advertisements. Differing opinions are nothing new. Christians shouldn’t be upset if every advertisement is for atheism or even directly against Christianity. They should be able to stand up against it with their lives. Scripture communicates a similar idea.
@TheGreatBout - I’m not really sure it’s much better to say that they don’t like this advertising because they’re so vain that they believe only they have the truth.
In my opinion, being nice, tolerant, honorable, etc… does not necessarily mean that I’m good.
There are dark parts of everyone….Christians and non-Christians alike.
I’m not sure if anyone is Good.
@SerenaDante - Everyone believes they have truth to a good degree. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Agnostics. But again, I agree that people shouldn’t get up in arms about advertising that has a different or perhaps even false viewpoint.
Hmm interesting post. Not going to lie. My fiance got a kick out of it since he is atheist. I on the other hand do not consider myself religious just because i believe in God. It is my own choice just like it is yours to not. I dont push God onto anyone. I do not tell people they are going to hell if they dont believe. I do not judge anyone because they believe something that i dont agree with, or dont believe anything. That is your right.
I will not sit there and get offended when people say God is a lie, or that i am stupid for believing. I have my reasons for believing in God, just like my fiance has his reasons for not believing.
Thank you for writing this.
@CoderHead - That will never happen so your senario is faulty. Jesus is real to me and will always be. Reverse your statement and answer.
@Randy7777 - Never? Really? The difference between you and me is that I don’t doggedly claim to “know” something that I couldn’t possibly know. If Jesus appeared to me tomorrow and removed any doubt from my mind that he exists, I’d believe it. I would not, however, change the way I live my life. Without god I’m a good person. With god I’d be the same person. This goes contrary to your attitude wherein you can be shown all the evidence in the world and it won’t change your mind because you’re just so smart and you know that you’re right.
What scares me about you and people like you is that you honestly think if god didn’t exist that it would be OK for you to run around raping and killing people. Do some self-examination, honestly. If god is the only thing keeping you from being a blight on society then maybe you’re not cut out for society.
@CoderHead - Yes there is a difference between me and you and you hit it right on. Just because I have faith doesn’t make me arrogant any more than you not having faith makes you arrogant. Jesus says no one is good accept His Father in heaven. How can you be good with so much hatred in you? It’s coming out in your words - “then maybe you’re not cut out for society.” I think we should just be tolerant of each others belief.
@Randy7777 - I find it frustrating that, with the lack of a coherent argument, you fall back on the “you’re full of hate” argument from persecution. If you can’t see how a person wouldn’t be fit to integrate into a functioning society without an internal sense of right and wrong then I’ll never be able to explain my stance to you. You might have mistaken what you quoted as me saying, “Maybe you should kill yourself.” That’s absolutely wrong and nothing could be farther from the truth. I don’t want anyone to kill themselves; I just don’t want sociopaths violating other people’s rights and making it difficult to be happy. If an ill-defined concept of a jealous, petty deity is the only thing keeping you from murdering people then you scare me. Plain and simple.
@CoderHead - I have faith and refuse to consider anything different. You don’t like that. You want me to drop my faith to consider your senario. I can’t have faith if I did that, can’t you see that? Tolerance is needed here. Jesus has done everything so people can be very happy. Sin is what destroys and Jesus came to take away sin. Sociopathic behavior comes from sin. Jealousy comes from sin. Laws are what keeps it under control.
@Randy7777 - That’s exactly why I’m now finished with this conversation. It obviously won’t progress any further than you sticking your fingers in your ears and telling me I hate god. What a waste of time.
@CoderHead – That’s for the good. You hear what you want to and translate the same.