April 20, 2012
-
unsaveable
The bible makes it quite clear that children born out of wedlock cannot get into heaven, and neither can the next ten generations of their progeny. Have you looked at your family tree? What are the odds that most Christians have some bastard relative in the past ten generations?
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
(Deuteronomy 23:2 KJV)One whose father and mother are not married may not come into the meeting of the Lord’s people, or any of his family to the tenth generation.
(Deuteronomy 23:2 BBE)No one born outside of a legal marriage, or any of their descendants for ten generations, can fully belong to the LORD’s people.
(Deuteronomy 23:2 CEV)Translation: If your mom’s not married when you’re born, you don’t get into Heaven. Neither do your kids. Or your kids’ kids. All the way down for 10 generations.
A newborn person cannot choose the marital status of his or her parents. A bastard is a person completely without fault. However, because of religious intolerance, bastards have been stigmatized for centuries.
It’s a good thing I don’t believe in Heaven or Hell. After all this would mean that my husband wouldn’t be allowed to go to heaven anyway. His parents weren’t married when he was born. That would mean my kids can’t either because their father is by definition a bastard, a child born out of wedlock.
And yet, it is said, David was a ninth-generation descendant of Perez, the bastard son of Judah and Tamar (Gen. 38:24-30 ; Ruth 4:18 ; 1 Chron. 2:5-14 ) and was allowed into the assembly.
One of God’s favorites, Abraham, sired the bastard Ishmael by his mistress Hagar. Gen. 16:4, 15.
The firstborn daughter of Lot bore a son by Lot. The bastard was named Moab and is the father of the Moabites to this day. See Gen. 19:37.
Jephthah was the bastard son of Gilead and a harlot. He made a deal with God to sacrifice his daughter in return for victory in battle. Jud. 11:1.
God’s favorite, David, sired a bastard son with Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah. Sam. 11:4-5.
Mary was not married when she became pregnant with Jesus so he was a bastard and according to Deuteronomy 23:2 “a bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord even unto the tenth generation.”
Thoughts?
Comments (92)
The Old Testament is important for History, but those laws were wiped out by the New Testament according to most true believers. So in the end those who are born out of wedlock would be savable.
And those who believe also look at David as encouragement because he was favored by God and give those hope because they are imperfect and can never be perfect but are still favored by God.
Oh and because I took a literature course on the Bible I did a paper about women in the Bible and in my research I read that Ishmeal and Hager were protected by God throughout the whole ordeal too.
A verse here and a verse there can make things look horrible when reading the whole story it fills in what can be missing too.
The term “congregation of the people” doesn’t refer to heaven. Old Testament Judaism didn’t have a strongly developed conception of the afterlife; many orthodox Jews today still do not. It’s all about choreographing your life to certain rhythms. Part of those rhythms for Old Testament Jews centered around public worship, and certain people would be excluded from public worship, in other words, from the “congregation of the people.”
And I’m not surprised that the Hebrew Bible records many instances of this law being violated. It records many instances of all the laws being violated. You mention David, who also took another man’s wife for his own and had her husband murdered.
In short, Kristen, I don’t believe scripture shows you’re unsaveable. Unless, of course, you want to be.
Very thought provoking post. @Chrystalized_Sweetness - I don’t get how some things in the old testament are permittable when you look at the “big picture” and yet certain opinions are pushed forward when it comes to conveniance. To be noted I have not read the bible cover to cover but I have been through a good portion of it.
Peace and Love
@diditdreaming - I honestly will never understand it either. According to most we’re not meant to understand and I struggle with that. I don’t know what tempted me to comment but I did. I liked your wording of opinions because I’m big on everyone believing in their opinions and no opinion is quite right because we can’t make proof on what we believe except what men has written and my struggle is believing in what men has written. They’re men and I have that trust issue. :)
Context and correctly interpreting what phrases mean in the Bible is very important to understanding it.
It’s talking about who was allowed in the Jewish temple or congregation, not salvation. This a classic example of taking one verse of scripture and applying eisesgesis to interpret it. The N.T. says that every one can be saved by believing in Jesus. Here’s another view on this scripture showing the word means mixed race. Someone of mixed race was not allowed in the temple or congregation. LINK
@NightCometh - @SirNickDon - @Chrystalized_Sweetness - You might be interested in the link I gave.
I haven’t responded on your site for a very long time, so please forgive me if this is offensive to you. I don’t believe in the bible, but do believe in Jesus’s teachings as well as Moses and Muhammad (PBUH). My church taught peace, love, forgiveness and understanding. I would rather live by those values than try to figure out which 400 and something bible version that is the right one. By living this way, it allows me to be able to love alot more people than to worry about being judged, especially by people who don’t believe in my life values and especially when God is the only one who gets to judge. I hope this makes sense…=)
@diditdreaming - @Chrystalized_Sweetness – the Book of Acts, Chapter 15, Verses 1-35 answer this question, and describe what brought up that very question. The short answer is not that things change from OT to NT, but rather that the life, death, and resurrection of Christ fulfill the Law of the Old Testament. We no longer become a part of the chosen people by following certain cleanliness and purity rituals, we do not have the same need for sacrifice – because Christ fulfills those – he makes us clean, he makes us pure, he makes us holy, by his blood we are forgiven, and by his atoning sacrifice we are made right with God.
Basically, Jesus brings us to God the Father by doing all these things that fulfill the Laws and requirements of the Old Testament. And that’s what the Gospel actually is.
i think what sirnickdon & acomfortingcolloquy summed up what i think. for me, grace is the reason why i don’t fret over OT law.
OT is kind of like pre-relationship. there are rules to coincide with the age/mindset of the time/keep things from utter chaos (since there was not a penal system like we have today) — to commit adultery could bring a family to financial ruin/create huge dysfunction. thieving could threaten survival, etc.
OT had a purpose to prepare line of Jesus. it had to be set apart, otherwise he wouldnt have been — if that were possible. if his aunts and relatives were thieving, unfaithful, untrustworthy lot, what would he probably have been ? NT is grace by relationship. I liken it, though probably too simpy, to how we are a lot more understanding if our closest friends should track mud in our house as opposed to strangers.
i think OT laws and decrees especially were meant to be strict and impossible to maintain also in order to demonstrate that there needed to be a savior b/c nobody could live up to such high standards — even if they had, their inward motives or hearts would still be less than stellar; at least that is what i believe. Ruth, Rahab the prostitute were both grafted into the royal lineage, and David and moses both received a lot of grace for murder/actions, among many others who were highlighted in the stories. Jesus – yup — he was born into a humble situation where undoubtedly there were rumors circulating about his mother/him being a bastard, etc.
good questions. i don’t probably have the best answer. but this is what seems right to me.
@acomfortingcolloquy - This I know, and is probably why I will never evangelize. I can’t simply say what others want me to share about the gospel. But I wasn’t thinking about the gospel when I was writing my comments. Thanks.
My thoughts are that fortunately I don’t have to try and figure the Bible out anymore.
Wow,I’m not even gonna get into any of this.I’d be here all night trying to straighten out the twist you’ve made here.I’ll just simply say the only unsavable are those who denigh the Holy Spirit therefore not accepting Christ’s atonement for their sin,and that leaves them in their sin still and subject to God’s wrath because they don’t accept the wrath He poured out on Himself(Jesus) for our sake.Grace wins the day.
@hesacontradiction - My church taught peace, love, forgiveness and understanding
hey hun my impression of this blog and what it’s saying is that plenty of people embody peace, love, forgiveness and understanding without church. It’s like the golden rule, which is something that I learned in school, actually, not church. good old sectarian public school, you know that thing that is going extinct?
Honestly people do not need any particular kind of church to realize this is the right way to be.
and you know what’s sad? It seems like some of the most frequent church goers embody none of these fine traits. Kind of the opposite.
these traits come naturally to many, many many people, perhaps even most people until they get indoctrinated into various judgmental religious indoctrinations, many of which teach the opposite.
@Somefishytales - Hey Mr. Christian,
FYI.
This comment that you made was very rude, you didn’t realize that? or you didn’t care?
your comment:
I’d be here all night trying to straighten out the twist you’ve made here
it was other unfortunate things besides rude, such as arrogant, pretentious and potentially sexist (the little lady needs ‘know it all Gene’ to straighten her out, give me a break)
you’re also being pushy, labling, judgmental, and lots of other stuff in that one little comment. (her blog is a twist now? that needs to get straightened out? according to you?)
what it is is a blog with a lot of different views and responses, yet you call it a “twist that needs to be straigtened out by you, pity you’re too busy”
YOU SEE NOTHING WRONG, RUDE, or UNSPIRITUAL or OBNOXIOUS acout your comment?
really?
don’t lie.
GENE GENE GENE. Where is your insight into your own behavior?
your parents didn’t teach you about rudness and stuff, church didn’t teach you? see? I rest my case that I was making to hesacontradiction.
you’d better hope grace wins the day, because you’re certainly not graceful and the way you talk? you really think that makes people want to be like you? Learn from you2me, you need a mentor.
@musterion99 - Oh charming, who knew the Bible was racist on top of everything else. Here’s my shocked face:
my views?
gigantic pile of doo doo.
seriously, babies have a choice what they are born into and are therefore doomed nor the next ten years of their progeny.
there goes newdog and his awesome kids because sperm doner was an asshole? seriously?.
FUCKING RIDICULOUS
If THAT’s heaven, count me OUT. I do not want any association in the world with some alleged space which would exclude innocent babies…not to mention 10 more generations of innocent babies?
why would I want to be associated with a creepy haunted hell hole that would exclude innocent babies?
you know what? (if it sounds like I’m yelling at you, Kris, you know I’m not, it just riles me up to read this crap) you know what, newdogs life has sucked enough on account of his bio dad jumping ship.
it took him three years to tell me the truth, namely no his real dad did not die in Viet Nam. Poor guy, and all the shame he felt for having been abandoned, all the lengths he went through to keep that a secret, he did NOTHING wrong, nothing wrong.
ARGH!
they’re trying to MANDATE their own fucking values. fuck them!
I don’t even know if I can stand to read number 2, hahahaha!
IDIOTIC BIGOTED JUDGMENTAL – if there were to BE DEVIL/SATAN/LUCIFER energy? That kind of energy would be just that!
2. Bullshit. they ought to get rid of the notion bastard child too, it’s RANCID with creepy jeebies.
3. They’re still fixated on that? WTAF? Still fixated on the innocent newborns? YO, fo mo bo. these people suck.
OK it stopped, yay. Well we share tht in common, dogs parents weren’t married when he was born and the dude never married dogs mother.
I read all the way to the end shaking my head off at all the “bastards” until I got to the end and it was yeah, DUH!
Jesus, the quintesential Bastard if that’s the word they want to use and mary was the Mother of all bastards. HAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
.
sounds like a mandate for abortion of children conceived out of wedlock. isn’t that ironic.
I notice all your references are old testament. Since Jesus died for us we live under a new covenant. That may have been relevant once but no longer is.
Also, do you really see God as that heartless? How he cries out for relationship with us. If He is willing to die for all of our own personal sins, imagine how much something done by the generations before us can be forgiven by Him? Give Him more credit than that!
Interesting.
I note quite a few replies that state that the old testament was pretty much wiped out by the NEW testament.
But then people start invoking Leviticus…which is OT, every time they want to stomp on gays…or people who mix fibers in their clothing.
(Hint: JC never said a WORD about hating gays, bashing them, or needing them dead.)
(He also never said love the sinner, hate the sin…pretty much CERTAIN he never gave anyone permission to HATE.)
If you want to be a REAL Christian, you have to STOP quoting the OT…and PUT DOWN THE DAMNED ROCK…because you aren’t supposed to be stoning anyone. And anyone who THINKS they are supposed to judge anyone else is an idiot. (Sorry…but you are.)
Babies are innocent. I left the Catholic Church because the whole “original sin” notion offended me…not to mention “condemning babies to Limbo”.
@Chrystalized_Sweetness - I think you kinda missed the point that I was trying to make with the post but thank you for commenting.
@SirNickDon - so the law only counted sometimes and that was ok?
@musterion99 - which is another point toward the bible being racists. but that is another fact christians don’t like to talk about.
@SoapAndShampoo - :)
@DivaJyoti - yeah, it seems a lot of people didn’t understand the whole point of the post. Either that or those people are purposely acting like they don’t understand it. You get it
Thanks for the great comments.
@Somefishytales - so you just call my post twisted and ignore it and push your thoughts which don’t touch the post at all. Wow…thanks grampy …not
@DivaJyoti - yup….racism
@DivaJyoti - exactly
@DivaJyoti - oh I should do a think about the chaplain at BJ’s work (yeah his work has a chaplain and are supposedly a christian company but that is a whole other topic and rant) when he found out that BJ’s mom is a lesbian and is married to a woman,omg this guy about lost it. He started ranting about how homosexuals are destroying american and stuff like that. It is insane. And to think that the work pays that idiot to come in to the work. all that guy proves time and time again it that Christian seems to = bigot, homophobe, judgemental and stuff like that.
@theprettiestpapernevergetsused - so the old testament is no longer valid you are saying??? but it is what is used to bash LGBT lifestyles??? which way is it? you cant have it both ways.
@Kristenmomof3 - As in most societies, the law was only selectively enforced, and it was definitely never regarded as okay. Don’t forget that both the Hebrew and Christian Bibles are collections of many books, often by authors who sharply disagreed with each other and intentionally wrote to counteract each other. Some of the OT books are clearly in favor of David as king and some clearly against. The ones in favor try to minimize his law-breaking episodes, and the ones against really play it up. Not so different from today.
oh no!
Looks like I’m doomed.
On the up side, seems I’ll be in good company!
What a terrific post! I didn’t know all of this was written about bastards in the Bible, but then I haven’t read it since I was a kid.
@Kristenmomof3 - What I would say would only be laughed at by you and diva and dog and plenty others,so I choose not to bother.I am not a theologian or a great learned man of scripture,but I do know when someone is twisted words to fit how they want it to sound.I recommended a few comments that pretty much say how I think without getting into great detail so why go any farther.I’m just sorry that for a person who used to try and defend scripture,now you have become one who looks for ways to tear it down.If one thing in scripture is wrong or false then all of it is false.I choose to believe there are reasons why it is written the way it is.I’m not very good with words so I’m not the one who needs to explain any of this to you.As I’ve said before,I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed,but can understand certain things even if I can’t say what I think very well.I have to get to work now and I’m sorry if you are disappointed in me,but it’s no where near how disappointed I am in you at trying something like this.
@Kristenmomof3 - i get that a lot, apparently i’m very good at missing the point
@DivaJyoti - Well said. ”The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today. Is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips. Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle.” I always remember that saying.
The bible made a mistake(s) and it wasn’t the last one.
@Kristenmomof3 @DivaJyoti - - No, God not allowing people in the temple because they are worshipping other Gods is not being racist. If God was racist, he wouldn’t have sent his own son to die for every one’s sins.
@DivaJyoti - I totally agree with you.
I never chanced on that before. Interesting. How very contradictory and unjust it all seems. Definitely not my cup of tea.
It’s true and thank goodness for that. They shouldn’t get into Heaven and I sure as Hell don’t want to be up there with a bunch of bastards.
@C_L_O_G - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @hesacontradiction - Thank Goodness for those on Xanga who aren’t like that. Actually, the few kind christians on Xanga have changed me as far as my attitude toward Christians in general. Of course, there sure are some obnoxious ones around here too, but those strong voices like yours and youtome, some of you guys, hope you guys never stop talking. @SKANLYN - SNORTLE. the irony! I know you’re laughing too. @WednesdaysShadow - thank you for letting me know, yeah, it’s crazy to condemn innocence of infancy.
@musterion99 - of BULLSHIT Frogster, you YOURSELF pointed out the racism in the bible!!! Once you point it out you point it out! Who would have known without you pointing it out? Good job.
@Chrystalized_Sweetness - congrats, I guess that’s something to brag about now. Maybe I can develop that talent. 
@Somefishytales - You know what’s better then being whiny and self pitying? Actually getting a mentor like he’s a contradiction or youtome, that’s if you really want to draw people toward what you believe to be true instead of making them want to run in the opposite direction as fast as they can.
@DivaJyoti - No I didn’t. Listen, if you want to learn theology and hermenuetics, I suggest doing a study on the old and new covenants. You speaking theology and trying to be a bible scholar and interpret what one verse of scripture means without taking the whole bible into view, is no different than you getting mad at people for misrepresenting liberals. I suggest sticking to politics.
@musterion99 - Discriminating against who can go into any organization based on ANYTHING is DISCRIMINATION.
I did not know the bible did this until you told me.
you’re gonna have to live with that because you let an ugly fact slip out. don’t blame me, blame you!
I suggest sticking to politics. this bullshit is all about politics. hhahahaha, evangelicals are trying to take over the country, there is NO WAY to separate out the two concepts, religion and politics, unless you’re a complete FROGTARD
@DivaJyoti - oh =/ now, i know what you mean. no, i hadn’t seen that. i don’t get on here much.
it’s a touchy subject. i’ve gotten into arguments with my best friend about it plenty too — ask markworth. so i think something just hit a nerve with Grampy. he was trying to defend his faith and maybe he didn’t say things in the best way that he meant, but he still has a good heart. i am a lot like him –i can’t always convey what i want to say, and then other times i say things in anger or frustration without always thinking them through. Grampy really has been a great mentor to me. we don’t agree on everything always, but he’s a good man. i know Kristen is also good person, so hopefully this is just one of those things where people say things and later come back and come to an understanding to respect each other and agree or disagree, dependng.
thanks for saying what you did about me though, it was very thoughtful. but really, Grampy is a great mentor. he has seen me through a great many struggles, prayed for me etc. he was one of the only people to question me on what people were saying (others just started in slandering and writing hate blogs, gossiping, threatening, etc.), and even question me and ask for the truth – which i really respected b/c he was one of the few (including barry/kristen) who actually cared what the truth was even if it meant possibly losing friends. He then later spoke out against some people who slandered me and treated me very shamefully. i will always respect and remember his integrity.
@DivaJyoti - I explained “why” God did this but you obviously don’t comprehend what I said. Hey, believe what you want. If you want to believe God is racist when I clearly showed he isn’t, then go ahead. I don’t really care. I just love how people who don’t believe in the bible are falsely telling people who do believe in the bible, what it means by looking at one verse and refusing to interpret it in light of ”all” of scripture. You can reply back if you want but I’m not wasting anymore time explaining what I already clearly explained. Have a nice weekend Diva.
@musterion99 - If you let the cat out a the bag you let the cat out a the bag, HAHAW don’t talk to my wife about “comprenehsion” when she’s the smart one in this picture. she didn’t say “god’s racist” see, she simply observed that according to your statement, the bible promotes racist practices. it’s your notion that the bible is god’s work, my wife utilizes spiritual resources which predate your book by a long shot.
frogs might make a dogs mouth feel foamy but there’s more then one way to off a obnoxious frog out of a bloggers life if that’s what you want by trying to insult people’s intelligence. keep it up. tryin to insult people’s intelligence just because they don’t agree with you when you take back something you said is sitting you way out on the edge plus, it’s FUNNY.
Thank you for explaining that the bible promotes discrimination, I should be surprised but I’m not. I’m not a disbeliever, I’m agnostic dognostic, but I know that God is NOT in that book. There’s no good kind of god in a book that says innocent infants should be doomed, and all their innocent infants, hell, maybe I deserve hell, but my kids sure don’t. That book has been used for satanic practices if anything, it, along with certain other books which claim to be “the word” have been used to promote every kind of evil ever conducted in the world. that’s the problem when you try to sacredrify “stuff.’
@YouToMe - if grampy is a great mentor why does he make my hair stand up all along my back when he tries to talk about christianity whereby you do not? you make it attractiveISH he makes it sound miserable, just like, miserable, like why don’t I just kill myself right now, being a bastard like me. ain’t fair to my kids though, they’re good kids why should they be in trouble because I got born a bastard? a place that will not admit my innocent children is a place no one should want to be.
I like when he talks about fishin tho. dogs love fish.
@C_L_O_G - high paw
I’ll be sure to share my slippers with you in hell.
@DivaJyoti - i guess it’s being in tune to knowing you can’t be perfect and not open to what everyone is trying to portray when they don’t come out directly say what they mean.
@NewDog2 - I didn’t let any cat out of the bag. If I say 2+2=4 and someone sees it as 2+2=5, that is their lack of comprehension. God is neither racist nor promotes racist practices. Just as I told your wife, you can reply back to me but I’m not wasting any more time on this with you either, no matter how loud you bark.
@musterion99 - You are a “ram your shit down people’s throat” obnoxious preacher. Back off a people. you said what you said. anyone can go back and read it.
why are you christians the most hateful, badgering people on xanga? if that obnoxious is your spiritual message, your god is gonna give you hell
I don’t know. Maybe you just got him on a bad day or moment. I’ve not always been best one to build up my faith either. I have bad moments. He has a lot on his plate right now with his daughter pregnant and they are worried about complications, he has a lot of responsibility trying go be good father / grandfather/ husband. Travels and doesnt have much time on here to really get into much. Like he has said too, he is not as articulate as some, but he is just doing what we all are trying to do– navigate through life. There’s a lot in the bible, especially in old testament that sounds awful. There’s a lot I don’t always understand or know how to explain or make sense of at a given time, but I always trust when I read it that God will give me the understanding to take away from it what I need to while I’m reading it.
Some say the Tao te Ching is like that, others say the Quran etc. I can’t make people believe as I do. I can only share what I know to be true and try to live out my faith as best I can. I believe that’s what Grampy does and is trying to do. But we are no different than anybody else. We aren’t always going to be as understanding, thoughtful, considerate, sensitive or thoughtful as people would like. That’s when we need grace and understanding too. I know I sure need it a ton! Lol
As much as I believe that that Bible is a collection of parables and not to be taken internally, plus I agree totally with @hesacontradiction - “The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today. Is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips. Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle.” – Consider this – there are many people who need to believe literally in this book and have founded their existence upon it. If you came across a cripple on the street would you kick his crutches away?
@musterion99 - ”Good people do good things, evil people do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ~Steven Weinberg
@YouToMe - if you’re talking to me we’ve both known him for years. hahaw
you understand how he talks because you speak his language, you are bi-lingual, christian and regular. you gotta be bi lingual to be understandable to bastards like me, people who don’t even want to learn the christian lingo, why would I? I’m a bastard and the bible is trying to send my innocent children to hell and their children and on and on ten times again.
so people like him and musterion sounds like blablablahblahblslasslalalalal, they don’t translate, if they want to talk to regular bastards like me, they should get bi lingual like you are.
then again, why even talk to a doomed bastard like myself? its written in the book, bio father didn’t marry my mom, she was FAT, and he ran off. If that dooms my innocent children to hell, I reckon I don’t even want to hear about it because I think it’s a bunch a bs. me, fine. my kids? because my mother was too fat to marry?
ain’t right.
@Chrystalized_Sweetness - I know what you mean, I seem to miss the point of a lot of blogs too. I figured it was a dog brain thing, and mostly just me, or maybe because I’m a bastard according to thebible because my mother was really fat, and the man who got her pregnant with me ran off, didn’t help her one bit. later he got married and had a family to a woman who wasn’t fat, so I’m a bastard and my kids are fucked
Bottom line is that in the “old days” folks of a different G-d were not welcomed to the congregation of the Tribes of Israel who believed in their G-d, who remained nameless.
But somehow in history someone decided to use the Children of Noah as the basis of Race. How the heck Hitler fit his race into being the right race is another story and I am sure that somehow the system of slavery in America decided since Blacks were a group decendant other than their favorite Noah child, they could make an exception and force Blacks for around 200 years to stay slaves.
Now we come into the mongrels or “bastards”. Interesting that the Mormons make a big fuss about heritage and all the family trees. The Japanese and Chinese also sort of make a big fuss about family trees and Let me say that so far no one has suggested making pure lines even though people naturally fear birth defects, inherited diseases and other traits that folks can get that might make the human race more defective.
Definitely at times variety and diversity seems very attractive and at other times it is the opposite. I am so glad no one has forced either issue and hopefully we can embrace everyone despite issues that seek to divide us.
@NewDog2 - I dunno, I find some dogs are more intelligent then we give them credit for though.
@Chrystalized_Sweetness - hearing it ‘now and then’ seems normal, hearing it “a lot’ and I’ve have to start wondering if I’ve stopped paying attention. It’s often those patterns that tell the stories.
@C_L_O_G - Let’s have a party party party. I guess I’m not a bastard literally but my father was more of a bastard then probably some random man who had contributed sperm and then split the scene could have ever thought about being, anyway, I don’t want to go anywhere innocent people are excluded from, and the majority of people of all ages are reasonably innocent, according to my personal logic, which is good enough for me right now.
@musterion99 - chillax your hind quarters frogster. You can’t possible imagine that you could make a comment about any kind of discrimination on this blog and not get Ribbitted about it. You see, I’m NOT an atheist and I never said that God was racist or whatever it is you said I said. The Divine of my understanding is without any human qualities would consider all of them irrelevant, if he/she/whom/whatever gave it any ‘thought’ at all, which is something I totally doubt.
Therefore God could not possibly be racist…or whatever you said I said. Why are you all hopped up? You said something better left unsaid because of the obvious propensitity for people to misinterpret it – whether in fact, or just to make a point for others who might have misinterpreted it in fact. That’s not MY fault.
@DivaJyoti - not A LOT…misinterpretation…sorry. Wording is everything now a days. I should have used every now and again. Anyways, we all do it now and again not get the point of someones blog. But we all see something else when we read and we are not in the writers head. Racism never approached me when I read this blog. I read it differently. Being in college I can easily see how we all interpret things differently. After I saw some of you talking about race and Kristen left the comment saying I didn’t get her point. I of course reread the blog. Even then, with my first comment, if you believe in the new testament it would still accept all ethnics. But yet, we can all interpret the Bible to make it say what we want it too. I think that’s why it can be argued how easily the Bible can be so contradictory. No matter who is truly behind the writing of it we don’t actually know what they truly meant when writing it. Which then leaves us to the many arguments and debates we see on here and in the world.
@Chrystalized_Sweetness - Oh absolutely, I know I do every now and thn.
This bastard thing was news to me………………………….kinda wild, you know?
Like, for example, if you’ve got a pro choice mind Like I do, for women, I’d be thinking, wow, what a conflict for the christian woman. Should she abort the first 9 kids if her baby dady 2 be’s mother never got to get married to her baby dady to be’s father?
otherwise, if she’s planning on going to heaven, what hell it would be to raise 9 kids and then get sent somewhere different from your husband and first nine kids. Enough to make a woman want to do evil al her life so she can go to hell and not be separated from her family.
@DivaJyoti - I never said that God was racist or whatever it is you said I said.
I said I wouldn’t respond back but here’s what you said – “Oh charming, who knew the Bible was racist on top of everything else. Here’s my shocked face:”
Ok, so you said the bible is racist. That doesn’t change anything I said. The scripture in question is quoting what God is saying. So are you going to say that the bible is racist but the God who is saying the supposed racist comment, is not racist?
@NewDog2 - i do think i understand where you are coming from. but you definitely, and nobody else i believe, is hopeless or a bastard to God. bastards, like you say, can’t help the actions of their parents. but outsiders can come in and take ownership of a child and treat him/her as fully legitimate/ as if he/she were His own. we see this in story of Moses kind of, and with ruth. Moses was supposed to be killed as a baby b/c he was israelite. but pharoah’s daughter took him in as her own, even had moses’ mom nurse the child and paid her for such! okay, that doesnt really prove my point though. sry…just was another example of miraculous saving of one of the jewish peoples (and these are stories. this is not formal debate lol). but i digress. ruth though was not jewish. was widowed but left her people and life to care for her ex jewish mother in law. Ruth’s son ended up being part of Jesus bloodline.rahab the prostitute also produced a child to be part of that bloodline (i probably have repeated myself quite a bit here. seems like ive said this already. who knows with this scatterbrain. lol).
Jesus coming into the world shook things up. being religious, rich and powerful or coming from a good family didnt mean anything. Jesus had very humble parents. i’m sure people talked about how they thought mary got knocked up and joseph was a sap for marrying her still.
The bible says a lot of seemingly conflicting things. i wrote more in your pulse on here. on one hand you have such legalism, on the other hand such grace. both are needed somewhat to strike a mysterious balance. we have free will, but God is sovereign and knows what we will do before we do it. Bible urges care of orphans, widows, the poor, foreigners, to visit the sick, in prison, etc. Jesus also pointed out that the man who was forgiven much loved God more – so the religious political leaders lacking in compassion/empathy have it all wrong. Jesus heart is close to the broken hearted, the hurting, the poor, etc. i can’t sway anybody to what i believe. all i can do is tell what He has done for me, what i think He could do for you or others
I don’t know. If she’s a Christian, she can’t truly find a win/win situation can she because even as a Christian she technically shouldn’t be aborting right? It is the Christians who are fighting against abortion. I myself could never go through with one but you already knew how I felt about that.
But if are you referring to the OT times then, I definitely leave it to someone else to figure out. I’m definitely no scholar when it comes to the Bible. Never will be. Anyone in their own circumstances have to find their solutions to their problems where they know they’ll be comfortable after their decision is made.
@NewDog2 - there’s another good story in the old testament. story of jonathon and david. jon befriends david and treats him as part of his family. gives him his shield so he can enter safely into the castle and such. lays down his life pretty much for david, to the scorn of his own father. i think in some ways this is a good pre new testament example of God’s grace. but so many other ones too. like ruth getting to marry boaz — she never expects such a new life, new husband, child and such hope for future. same thing with rahab the prostitute. she must feel unworthy, but manages to even be mentioned as great risk taker and courageous woman/gets to be part of Jesus’ blood line even too! all her past is washed away — and that’s in the old testament!
@Chrystalized_Sweetness - the OT times would give her a world a hurt. abort the 9 and all her babies are then spared hell, but she herself will be hell born in a hand basket and separated from all her kids, but still with her bastard spouse. don’t abort th 9 bastards destined for hell, end up all by her lonesome with none a her puppies by her side which would be hell for a mother. she’s just screwed every which a way.
listen to me all fancy all talking OT and NT like I know me some christianiT. truth so you kow, I doubt diva remembers how you feel about anything, she doesn’t remember much if anything except for about 10 xangans, me neither, no offense diva hahaw
@YouToMe - were they gay? Jon and David sounds like a cool couple. – I’m sorry but whores are are sore subject to me right at this moment. I’m mad about the mexican whores going after the secret service men.
They were probably put up to it by the cartels, just sayin – which got all their weapons from the ATF in Arizona. And you know the NRA was all up in it somehow or another, brilliant of them to cook up a mexican whore fest, endanger our President, neo-nazi new age KKK plot.
Living and raising your children based on the “Golden Rule” eliminates the need for pseudo translated scriptures from centuries ago.
if i ever have to stand before God and explain why i wasn’t Christian, i will point to these Bible verses and say, “either You really ARE that much of a dick……. or You allowed those who represent You on earth to lie. whatever option it is, i could not reconcile this with my conscience.” if that means i go to Hell, so be it.
@DivaJyoti - Some Christians make Hell sound awesome! I can be naked, kiss girls, have orgies, eat figs…
@plursheep - hahah, yeah, that’s cool then! none of my favorite people seem to be headed any other way, well, maybe only a couple
@flapper_femme_fatale - hahah, love that comment
@UncCharlie - wow, I’ve just been blogging about that golden rule, it covers all the bases, and I learned it in grade school, not church. public grade school, sectarian public grade school, that wonderful institution that seems to be in danger of going extinct
@plursheep - Bob died, went to heaven and found himself in a big white room, alone. god kept checking in on him and brought him sandwiches and yogurt whenever he was hungry. after several days Bob asked god where everyone else is. god told him there is nobody else. “You’re the only one to date who’s made it to heaven.” After getting over the shock of this revelation Bob asked another question. “I’ve opened the trap door over there several times. It’s a long drop but I hear lots of voices down there. What’s that?” god answered, “That’s hell down there.” “Okay.” Bob answered then said “When I open the trap door I smell barbecued ribs, Cajun catfish, all kinds of good stuff.” “They like to feast down there”, god answered. “So why is it all I’ve had to eat are cold cuts and yogurt?”, Bob asked to which god answered, “I figure there’s no sense cooking for just the two of us.”
@DivaJyoti, recommended this site to me… and i’m happy i visited the site
hmmm somehow the church overlooks this little point… 
When I was pregnant with my son 14 years ago, I went to church. Alone. Unmarried. Looking for something, anything to give me strength and support. Imagine my surprise when the priests sermon that day was all about how children these days were being born outside of wedlock and these poor babies would never be recognized or loved by God. I waddled my ass right out of the church, in tears.
9 years ago I had my daughter out of wedlock. By a different father. Le gasp!
Its all a bunch of hooey as far as I’m concerned.
I am so sorry that this post has been taken completely out of context. What you have quoted have been from the Old testament but with the New testament, things changed with Jesus. Even though Jesus was born to Mary who was not married at the time of conception, yet God sent his only begotten son to save us. If you accept Christ, you are saved. And none of this Bastardly thing would apply. We all are sinners, but if you believe in Jesus all is well.
Now I get the picture what Mae @Sistermae wrote in her post.
@cja1976 - Sorry that the Parstor or preist gave a stupid sermon. That is not how God sees your life. Your child may have been born out of wedlock but does not mean they wlll never know heaven. That is wrong. We all are sinners. But if we accept Christ in our lives, we will see a different life.
@cja1976 - The Priest is just a man and men do stupid things and say stupid things and without a doubt God is going to have a stern talk with him about that sermon for sure some day…. there is an unfortunate fact that many churches do not learn or teach much about the NT and a lot is pre Jesus… Jesus love the little Children and in their innocents no doubt they will see Heaven…I hate it will junk like that is spouted wrongly
@NewDog2 - Hahahaha!!! I love that quote!
@NewDog2 - Only in the eyes of those pious bigots in the church Dog! I think you and your whole family will be just fine in the eyes of the Lord.
I am totally confused by all fo this and am not going to make any comments on soemthing i do not understand. I have been ehre quite a few times trying to read and understand and I am not a troll, just a very confused old lady. i give up and am going to on my way and wish you a blessed week.
You know, it is a good thing that born-again Followers of Christ now live under the grace of God, and not under the law of the Old Testament, otherwise there would be none who would escape hell! Interesting thoughts though.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.” John 5:24 (Jesus speaking)
@DivaJyoti - Your logic makes sense. I figure if it goes back 10 generations there has got to be at least one bastard in my family tree. hahahaha
@NewDog2 - Thank you
The whole thing is nonsense of course. There are a number of things I don’t believe that uneducated people from two millennium ago believed. See my blog on the question of God.
These comments are fabulous and far more entertaining than Ray Bradbury. Let’s stipulate that the entire Old Testament was wiped out and became a paperweight EXCEPT
1) when we want to legislate against queers
2) when we need to prohibit abortions and contraception
3) whenever divajyoti rants about it
4) when we want to carry a concealed weapon.
As it Was in The Beginning So Let it Be Always Dude.
What do you consider to be the congregation of the Lord?
i never thought of those coincidences. i think that god doing that was about grace and showing his love. but i think i do get your point about religious communities and their intolerance. anyway i agree with what others say that the old testament rules do not apply so much anymore so that makes me happier
It’s not about heaven. Just shows how Jewish Messiahnic Jews really are, if they never taught you that those passages refer to actually being of the house of Israel and that people who are not Jews that adhere to the 7 laws given to Noah have a place in the world to come. Mamsers simply are not subject of the Law. That simple.
Also, the passages pretty much refer to cases where either parent is married to someone else. Crappy translations make crappy interpretations. And just as a matter of fact, the Law does not apply to Abraham or Ishmael, simply because they lived befor ethe Law was given. Same about Jacob and his concubines, or Lot… or any of those folks. But anyway, it has nothing to do with eternity, really.
And yes, Jeebus was a bastard.
in the first scriptures the word bastard does not exist. there is a word for it in jewish, which was only mentioned twice in the scriptures, but it had three different meanings, one of which is bastard. the translations are so important that we need to study the scriptures in their original form.
well you already know what I think. The OT would make a great soap opera. That’s what I think. Also, those people commenting how you shouldn’t take parts of the bible out and make pronouncements? Not saying them in particular, but Christians do that all the time, when they want to bring out the anti gay card.