May 21, 2012
-
It’s against my religion
That is what Amish are saying about Smoke detectors. They claim it would be against their religious beliefs to have smoke detectors in their homes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18108197
A reporter talked to Mose Miller at his doorstep with his nine children looking on. It was cold: -15C (5F). Most of the kids were in bare feet. Their clothes were roughly sewed together – like Victorian patchwork puppets.
Mose Miller said “I use this,” he said pointing at his nose, “or him,” and his finger pointed upwards. “I don’t need a devil on the wall to tell me if my house is burning.”
When he was ask what would happen if a fire happened during the night and he didn’t wake up and he and his children burned to death he replied “If God does not wake us, well, that must be part of his plan.“
In other words, if something happens to my kids because of my own negligence, it must be part of God’s will. JW say the same thing with not allowing blood transfusions. Christian Scientists have the same thoughts and don’t take their children to hospitals because god will fix what he wants fixed and it is all god’s will.
Smoke alarms aren’t the devil entering your home. Smoke alarms aren’t horrible…Letting your family die in a fire that you could have escaped if you had a smoke alarm is.
Do smoke alarms violate Amish religious freedom? How far can people take shit like this? I mean really people don’t want to do something they yell it is against their religion. Try yelling that taxes are against your religion. How far do you think you would get with that one? How many innocent children have to die in fires that they could have escaped if they had a smoke alarm?
Comments (41)
This is kind of a passive version of the active harm done to religious people like snake-handlers and faith-healers.
Amish is a religion? I thought it was just a weird lifestyle.
@James_River – yeah, it is on the christian tree … On the same branch as the Mennonites
I wish I could use my vegan lifestyle choice to opt out of paying taxes which contribute to scientific/medical “research” which exploits, tortures, and murders animals; paying for food with meat and animal products in it; support local animal control I don’t agree with, etc. The list goes on. My veganism doesn’t get to count as a religion because it is rather a lifestyle choice made by conscious, well-thought out and valid reasons. Duh, that totally makes sense.
Isn’t this a form of child negligence?
BS is against my religion.. but it never stops people from trying to give it to me.. lol And I was always taught never expect God to take care of what he expects you be able to do yourself….
I dunno; maybe I’m just feeling quirky, but I see the Amish right to use their noses and gods as acceptable. It’s a huge world, and evolution functions on varying choices mobilized against the odds.
And the damage to self caused by being forced to buy into a world one rejects might be considered a primary concern.
But then I’m 17th generations ‘one of them’, all of whom survived miraculously without 9V batteries, ha.
Well, do you believe in “freedom of conscience”? Freedom to follow your own desires? Then you have to believe in freedom of religion: there is freedom to be wrong in the eyes of the world. It is not the worst thing in the world to die and go to the next life– I think that is the point the man was making.
Well, Amish have their own rules, like the Native Americans. We can’t really tell them what to do. It’s not like they’re telling mainstream society that we’re wrong for having smoke alarms. I agree it’s important to have smoke alarms, but if they don’t want to, they don’t need to. Amish have their own rules and we have to respect their rules
*shrug* if they don’t want to use protection, that’s their choice. maybe it will have a nice “natural selection” effect.
I don’t see the big deal here. If they don’t want smoke alarms, why should anyone force them on them? It’s not like they have electrical wiring in their houses that could go all screwy and start a fire… Shoot, even the fires they’re likely to have of their own (candles, cooking fires, etc) are more likely to be carefully monitored, than those of most of us who use candles for ambience and air freshening are to be. Odds are, if an Amish house is going to unexpectedly catch fire, it would be due to a lightning strike or some other obvious thing that would wake the whole household anyway. It isn’t negligence, it’s just not necessary.
yeah, that sounds off. why not use the same logic with clothing and shoes? –. those were new inventions to mankind too. Even Jesus wore sandles and clothes, because even He knew the common sense of protection against the elements
at the same time, i guess to each their own, as long as they aren’t causing harm to others. i guess similarly by that logic also it can be said that most americans are negligent because we don’t feed our kids consistently organic fruits and vegetables or make sure they exercise 30 minutes a day. even if we could afford to, we would still be negligent at times given what we know to be nutritious and healthy but sometimes fail to do.
so while it sounds off to us that the amish won’t use smoke detectors, there are plenty of people worldwide who survive who aren’t fortunate enough to have access to smoke detectors, phone lines, electricity. i tend to think we have to allow people to live their own lives as their consciences dictate, even if they are far right.
i hear ya though. =/
@passionate_kisses579 - @pb49r @jsolberg - - you all make good points
I say if they don’t want them, they shouldn’t have the have them. Like keystspf said, it’s not like they have all the gadgets and wires everyone else has that causes so many house fires anyway. I like jsolbergs point also. Who wants to start pointing fingers at what people ~should~ be doing. Things we know that are right, but we make the so called bad choices anyway. Point your finger at something, and you’ve got three more pointing right back at yourself.
They’re Amish. They live in their own communities separate from the rest of the world for a reason. I don’t see why we shouldn’t leave them alone if that’s something that they want.
It’s always funny reading posts that criticize certain ways of life, when in actuality these people that you’re opposing feel as strongly against you and your thoughts as you do towards them. There’s something in this world called tolerance.
A religious man is on top of a
roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says “get in,
get in!” The religous man replies, ” no I have faith in God, he will
grant me a miracle.”
Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy
tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god
will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another
boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause “God
will grant him a miracle.”
With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they
tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns
down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates
of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would
grand me a miracle and I have been let down.” St. Peter chuckles and
responds, “I don’t know what you’re complaining about, we sent you three
boats and a helicopter.”
Amish people do yell that taxes are against their religion. And since they don’t claim SSDI, they don’t have to pay into it. It is against the Amish’s belief system to have anything battery powered in their homes. If they want to risk their own lives, then so be it. I have an issue with them risking children’s lives though.
@Saridactyl - because there’s innocent victims involved. We leave them alone, we leave the children alone who are being forced into hard physical labor at young ages, and everything else that entails the Amish religion. The Amish can be comparative to a cult in many ways. They are grown that way, told which way to live and then you ask them to leave like it’s that easy. It’s not easy. Cults are not easy to leave. The Amish religion would not be easy to leave. You are told that God will smite you if you leave, that you’ll go to hell. So you stay there for your entire life like this. Women submissive to your husband, having multiple children. People living apart from a world that exists that they’re told they can’t touch. And we sit here and say “lets leave them alone” “lets let them live like that” but we get all up in arms about Mormon cults.
@MyPublicSite - Not sure why you felt like getting in my face about this since I obviously don’t care and did not direct my comment towards you, but I hope you feel better now. Also, why respond to my comment when they’re were others that were more specific than mine?
@Saridactyl - You asked the question “I don’t see why we shouldn’t leave them alone if that’s something that they want.” So I answered it?? I don’t see how exactly I got in your face about it? I think your reading way far into my comment then you should.
@Saridactyl - And I responded to yours because it was the first one that caught my eye, that sort of happens as your skimming through comments. I mean you don’t put stuff down on xanga and not expect to get a dispute. It’s sort of part of xanga. If you don’t like I suggest you make a huge red warning sign as your signature. PLEASE DON’T DISPUTE. You make an opinion, you get an opinion back, that’s why this blog was started, for controversy.
@keystspf - This.
Also, where the hell does this “save the children” shit end? I mean really, why don’t we all just encase everything in some eco-friendly, no-sharp-edges bubble wrap? FTW.
Just a point…almost all the Amish in the US are descended from 300 original ancestors.
That is a TINY genetic pool…and it shows…in their children.
I understand they run high for genetic recessives…which is not exactly a surprise.
While they reject most things form the “english”, I hear that they are quite interested in reproductive medicine…because they HAVE to be. They also have expressed interest in adopting children from the outside world…any one of whom brings a whole new set of chromosomes to the community.
Sort of sad…sort of scary…
mean and stupid too. perfect combination, insanity would improve most christians
@pb49r - Well, do you believe in “freedom of conscience”?
you probably don’t believe the wealthy people should be told to pay their taxes either because people will just take care of others out of the kindness of their heart.
Are you Amish or Mormon or what? Never mind, it’s nonna my beeswax anyways.
@galadrial - that’s one of my wifes favorite stories. me, I’m tired of it by now.
@Saridactyl - well we’re talking about them, just like you are too, I wouldn’t call that leaving them alone or not leaving them alone, but- what did Kris suggest we go imprison them? nope.
@theQuickFixInYourArms - I laughed so hard I got the dog hiccups to hear you reaming out sombody for being intolerant you’re doing the same exact thing exactly. You’re being intolerant. Why are you being so intolerant when “there is something in the world called tolerance.” You can’t get me the same way because I never once claimed to be a saint like you seem to be doing when you go intolerant on somebody about you don’t think they’re tolerant. You sound a lot like Mitt Romney.
I’m quite sure this is some joke because well, I don’t trust any news out of England lately with the botox mom and nonexistant girlfriend dentist who yanks out all her ex-boyfriend’s teeth fake news stories. Considering the Amish, for some reasons, among some sects can and do use batteries, I am sure some Amish homes have smoke detectors. Not only that but I am 100% sure that more American children die in car accidents each month than Amish children die in fires each year. Just saying…
@galadrial - oh, they do adopt babies from the outside. Most of the time infants of mothers in prison. That is where most of the babies that they adopt come from. The watch the babies of women in prison with the promise to these women that they will keep the babies out of the cps system and that the women can have the babies after they are out of jail 6 months and have their life together. Many many times these women never get their babies back because they end up back in jail or are unable to get their lives together and then the amish keep the baby. That is how they have been getting new blood into the amish recently.
@TiredSoVeryTired - if you don’t believe the news source then google it. You will find other sources of the same story. It is true.
@TiredSoVeryTired - those stories came from the Daily Mail, which is not the same as the BBC. Just saying. I wouldn’t believe the Daily Mail either, but the BBC is a pretty trustworthy source in comparison.
They’ve survived this long without modern technology.
FWIW, I admire the Amish for their adherence to their beliefs, but that doesn’t mean I agree with them.
@MyPublicSite - Lol. I asked no questions. But that’s alright. If *you* care so much about the fires that are apparently happening in Amish homes, find a way to create a fire alarm that doesn’t infringe on their beliefs. They’ve been living that way for hundreds of years. They know what they’re doing. They have NO electrical units in their homes and that causes a majority of fires in our homes. Ask an electrician. As far as not allowing them to leave and it basically being a cult, I know people who actually used to live in Amish communities. They have nothing but wonderful things to say about the people who raised them and took care of them. They’ve even talked about how they had the CHOICE to stay there once they reaches the appropriate age. Do you know any Amish people? Or are you using your outside opinion instead of those who have actually experienced it to form your thought process?
@NewDog2 - So because I said we should leave them alone, I’m in turn, not leaving them alone? That doesn’t really make any sense. What the OP did suggest, through tone in the least, was that this is somehow child neglect. You’re running way ahead of me with the imprisonment talk and the attitude that I don’t think was fairly given.
@TiredSoVeryTired - I think the source is accurate, I trust the bbc. I do agree with you about the last part, though. There are children in homes in low income states like Kentucky without electricity and indoor plumbing, but they don’t seem to care much about them…
@Kristenmomof3 - @Saridactyl - lol Okay, I googled it and see where the story came from. But ya know, after a few false stories this one sounded like another one! Probably a better idea to come up with a smoke detector that works without batteries or electricity somehow, because frankly it’s annoying when they chirp as the batteries are drained.
Same thing with the JW and how people complain that they won’t do blood transfusions. Well, technically it is better to have your own blood for surgery, not a donor’s. JW forced some doctors to come up with different ways of using a person’s own blood. That is a good thing. The JW also have some issue with cutting into the flesh, which also forced some doctors to invent new less invasive ways of surgery. All good for the rest of us.
@daydreams_nightmares - Ahh, not sure I paid too much attention to the exact source, but you are probably correct. The Vengeful Dentist story got picked up by a lot of news agencies so I was a bit skeptical.
@TiredSoVeryTired - yeah I definitely don’t blame you for being sceptical, haha.
@Saridactyl - You said “I don’t see why we shouldn’t leave them alone if that’s something that they want.” And I said “this is why”. Why is a question. And yes I have known Amish people personally. Young and old, I felt very sorry for them, because they were raised to think only one way. You obviously know NOTHING about cults if you say “They had a choice” and “they loved it”. YES most cult members do claim that. Or else they wouldn’t stay. How do you think Jim Jones got 1000s of people to follow him the whole way to South America? They’re brainwashed. And that goes against human nature. You should see the level of mental illness in Amish members. Research it. It’s not cool. I was roommates in a psych ward with a few of them. It spiked my curiosity. Seeing those people made me want to fight for them.
@MyPublicSite - You missed the part where I said they USED to live in Amish communities. They left because it’s not what they believed in. No one forced them to stay. No one killed them. If you pride yourself on your reading comprehension as much as you act like you do, why ignore the points in my comment that pertain to the topic at hand? Smoke detectors in Amish homes.
Comparing Amish communities to Jim Jones is pretty far fetched. When people tried to leave, they were held at gun point and killed. The ones who stayed were forced to drink poison. Amish communities DO allow people to leave, if they didn’t, they would be under police investigation for something other than smoke detectors.
As far as cults go, I think all religions are cults.. but we live in a country that prides itself on its religious freedoms.
*edit* You know what don’t bother responding. I won’t read it. I’m tired of arguing. Have a nice night.
@Saridactyl - O so you can get your last word in, but my last word is useless. But I still know that I’m right. Jim Jones didn’t force people at gun point to move to South America. It wasn’t till last minute that the killings happened. The point being is that people in the Amish community are being forced to take these standards, like lack of smoke detectors or “go to hell” like all cults say. O and don’t bother responding. (rolls eyes)
Seriously? Hes AMISH. Let em believe what they wish to believe.
Negligence: Conduct that falls below the standards of behavior established by law
for the protection of others against unreasonable risk of harm. A
person has acted negligently if he or she has departed from the conduct
expected of a reasonably prudent person acting under similar
circumstances.
Choosing not to have smoke alarms in their home is not negligent as it is not the law to have smoke detectors in your home. It is only strongly advised to have them.
It’s never too late to improve your information and your contents inspire me.