July 25, 2011
-
Religious Material in the Doctor’s Office
I read an post by The Friendly Atheist about Bibles in Doctor’s office’s.
Here, in Lancaster County Pennsylvania, it seems like there are bibles and christian children’s books and magazines in all Doctor and Dentist offices. They seem to assume that everyone in this area is christian and goes to church. The last time I was at the doctor for my daughter to get her shot for school, the new doctor at the office started talking about her church and the things that they are doing. It seems people just assume here that everyone is christian.
What is it like in your area? Is there religious material in your doctor and dentist office? What are your thoughts on Religious propaganda inside the Doctor office? Would you feel different if it was a Qur’an or Book of Mormon?
Comments (62)
Their place of business, their rules. Not all of us become so irate when we find out that someone else is different.
@randomneuralfirings - I never said anything about anyone being irate. I asked……..What is it like in your area? Is there religious material in your doctor and dentist office?What
are your thoughts on Religious propaganda inside the Doctor office?
Would you feel different if it was a Qur’an or Book of Mormon?
I wouldn’t feel different. Like randomneuralfiringssaid, their place, their rules. No need to be offended because some dentists, doctors, etc., happen to be Christian or like putting Christian material in their offices.
I would or should have already known this upon prechecking places that I have medical work done.
I would be far more worried if the place I frequented swung the pendulum so far opposite the way that they had been. Then I would worry perhaps that a medical issue had happened or that they were handling life issues problematically.
And for years I lived in Utah and am not LDS. You can learn a good deal about people and their faith, their background and where they hope to go by opening up and listening. This is not tolerance but love. Tolerance is jammed in our throats, love is an inner characteristic that we can use and share.
JenAmy
My thoughts on religious tolerance are the same as tolerance towards race, gender, sexual orientation, culture, or any other group. I believe that we should accept people whose beliefs are different from ours so long as they do not attempt to force those beliefs on us. I would not object to a doctor displaying his Christian faith (or the faith of his or her patients) by having Christian material in the office. I admit, however, that I would probably have more respect for a doctor who put out materials of various faiths to accommodate all of the clientele.
in my area, it would just be magazine.. if it is at the workshop waiting section, the magazines would be the trashy type..
i wouldn’t consider such thing as propaganda… if they have posters on the wall spreading propaganda, that would be different.. just making a bible available, i wouldn’t view it as such..
actually i think i would read those books if they are made available like that… i do wonder what’s being said in those books… so basically i wouldn’t mind..
In my area religious material is in every doctors/dentists office, and that’s fine with me. My dentist’s office also has old video game machines like Ms. Pacman and Galaga to play on, so if you don’t want to peruse the reading material, you can go play games while you wait.
Well, I was going to correct the title – it’s not religious materials, it’s Christian materials, as you later mentioned.
Sadly, the family doctor I go to has Faux News on all the time, and there’s a bible or two, and I think some other things. It does irk me…but…it is a private entity. If that was a public school lobby, or a government office, that would be a different matter.
And yes, it does seem like many (if not most) Christians kind of automatically assume that everyone believes what they do. It’s the ultimate in presumption and arrogance. But, of course, atheists are the arrogant ones, not them. The unfathomable creator of the universe is concerned about them, and has specially designed plans for their lives, but that’s not arrogant. LOL!
There are absolutely no books or magazines in the doctor’s office here. Yet, if there was, with Israel defining itself as a Jewish state, I would have to just put up with that. That said, there are mezzuzot on the doors.
I’ve never seen anything religious-related in any doctor or dentist office I’ve ever been to before within the rather large network I am in, and that I work for. We are constantly promoting cultural diversity. That said, I have known a few of our medical professionals who are overt about their Christianity and I just choose not to see them for visits. Now, when I was outside of my network I was hospitalized at 2 different Catholic-affiliated hospitals. One of the Catholic hospitals I had no problem with. They sent in the chaplain, I explained I was an atheist and did not need their services and that was it. However, the other one they sent in the chaplain, I explained I was an atheist and would not need their services. The chaplain came back again and I explained politely, and again, that I was an atheist and did not need or want their services. Third time the chaplain came in I told them quite briskly that I did not want their services and that I was getting fed up with their ability to understand and accept that I was an atheist and the fact that I was in the hospital was not going to change my position. I have no problem with them coming once, but after they’ve been given the information that I’m an atheist and I’ve straight up told them I do not want their services, I find it extremely rude for them to keep pushing the issue.
Here in Utah I spend a lot of time in doctors offices and hospitals and i have never seen any religious material.Utah is very sensitive about not pushing religion.
maybe they think it’s a comfort to the people who come in for medical treatments, rather than an attempt at conversion… where i am it’s mainly national geographics and house and home.
When I was a little kid, the pediatrician’s office had Happy Hollister magazines and Goofus and Gallant cartoons. The dentists’ office had Readers’ Digest. Reactionary publications as far as my left wing father was concerned. The pediatrician despite being a learned man, also fled his wife and kids and the suburbs a few times each autumn with his buddies, to go to Upstate New York and go DEER HUNTIN’. He had a trophy, a stuffed head of a buck with big antlers, above the fireplace in his home and one time when we kids were being seen by him at his home office he took us next door to his actual home to SEE THE STUFFED DEER HEAD.
THAT SHIT WAS PRICELESS. Learned scientist/redneck…
I live in the bible belt. Most independently practiced doctor’s office, there are pictures of Jesus, teen commandment plaques and a host of biblical information as well as prescription medication brochures.
It’s one of those things that’s really silly to complain about. A common metaphor in my bussiness is the Japaneese flag being up next to the American flag in a dojo. If the teacher is teaching a Japanese M/A then it’s natural for the flag to be there. (It also seems silly to complain about. If you find the flag sooo ofensive then find a different teacher.)
If Agnophilo or ConorRyan were my Doctor, I would expect to see Atheist literature in their lobby. I might not read it (But then, I always bring my own book) but it makes sense that it would be there. It’s their lobby.
I wish the same sort of tolerance I would show to them could also be shown toward Christians. But then, I guess those days are past.
My area is filled with what you would call Lukewarm Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists, and any major religion out there. There are some that I’ve noticed, who aren’t lukewarm. They go balls out on their religion. That seems to drive away people who have any interest in religion. You see, in LA, you have to be “seeker-sensitive” to have people want to believe in yuor religion.
That’s why buddhism and scientology works in LA. They say a few lines and people hear what they want to hear. I’ve wrote a post about buddhists a while back. My fellow Sociologists at CSULA did a study on Scientology and boy are they fucking scary.
Religious material in the doctor’s office? No. Though I can’t speak on behalf of ALL doctor’s office, i have seen pictures of Jesus, the crucifix, or calenders that are church related somewhere in the office, but blatantly putting bibles? I’ve only seen the Gideons do that in hotel rooms.
I’m a Christian. I have a brain. I believe that the church and state are separated. However, a PRIVATE doctor’s office, one should do their own research before even choosing their doctor. Every state has a different guideline, and I do my best to follow the state’s guidelines when doing business. Yuo don’t talk about religion, politics, or morals/ethics when conducting business. The doctor’s office, from what I’ve noticed, do not want to lose their license over offending someone.
No, I wouldn’t feel different if it was the boko of mormom or quran or any buddhist texts. Religion and state, you gotta keep em’ separated. However, Christians are always at the ass-end of most atheist jokes. I’d say, look in the mirror, stop living in your own bubble, there are other STATES that exist in the U.S. and they go through some bull shit.
There’s a private school in west LA that has speakers loud enough to have the Muslim prayer heard at a public school nearby. It’s okay for Muslims to blast prayer like that, but if it was Catholics blasting something in Latin, the church would never hear the end of it. There is dualism in LA. I dunno about where yuo’re at.
Frankly, it beats the hell out of Highlights and 12 year old issues of Time.
Sadly no
The more important thing is whether the doctor is a good doctor, whether religious or atheist.
Hey, the last motel I stayed in had a Gideon Bible in the dresser drawer. I guess I can decide if I want to pick it up and read it or not. Same goes for the doctor’s office which also has a television playing (OMG) FOX NEWS!
I honestly don’t care, though if they put only religious material and no secular magazines or kid’s books etc it would be a bit annoying, like they’re trying to pressure you into reading it. If it’s just made available though, I could care less.
@vexations - Yeah I’ve noticed fox news playing in a lot of places (including the VA hospital I take my mom too), which annoys me. Especially in a government building.
I haven’t noticed.
Ours tend to have various magazines: sports illustrated, time, parents, that sort of thing. I guess I do not feel that it is necessarily propaganda, or it isn’t intended as such. I think they are simply providing something that they feel their patients may want to read. (Yes it does make assumptions, but depending on the area, statistically their assumptions may be correct for the majority of their patients.) However I do live in a relatively diverse area for the southern metro and would in some ways hope that if I saw a Bible laying out, that I would also see a Qur’an.
I find it comforting that my Christian doctor puts out Christian things for me to read in his office.
I see Chinese and Spanish language magazines.
@agnophilo - I’ve noticed most right-winged, homophobic, closet racists, self-absorbed idiots love Fox News… but that’s just an observation… nothing empirical.
at my old doctor’s office, they had some christian reading material out, and signs on the walls saying the staff would pray for you if you wanted. i’ve been to a few other offices where there was religious reading material. i don’t think i’ve seen any bibles or religious magazines at my current doctor’s office, but one time i did see a magazine for the christian treatment center i was in.
@nidan - ”If Agnophilo or ConorRyan were my Doctor, I would expect to see Atheist literature in their lobby. I might not read it (But then, I always bring my own book) but it makes sense that it would be there. It’s their lobby.”
Eh? I hope they would be shrewder buisnessmen than that.
The purpose of waiting-room literature is to occupy the time of waiting patients. If I were a physician, instead of pushing my own personal beliefs (which would be irrelevent to my occupation), I would seek to reflect the interests of my prospective clients. If they were children and their parents: Then I’d have parenting magazines and children books. If I served the Hispanic segment of my neighborhood, then it’d be Spanish-langauge literature. And sure, if Christian evangelicals frequented my office, I’d be perfectly fine with ordering Christian-themed magazines and newspapers (but I’d consider the possibly polarizing my non-Christian clients).
Heh, the managers of the place where I live are Hindu and they have materials in the rent office that were left by Jehovah’s Witnesses. XD
I don’t really care one way or the other. But if a doctor or whatever kept intolerant literature of any stripe in their waiting room- anti-Muslim screeds or the Hitchens book “God Is Not Great”- I’d feel rather uncomfortable. Not into that kind of thing.
What I notice in our wating rooms here in Cali is usually People magazines.
@nidan - LOL!!
If Agnphile or Connor chose to put atheist literature in their waiting rooms and they had their shops in Alabama, they wouldn’t have many customers (patients).
Seeing Bible Story books next to Highlights and Reader’s digest at the doctor’s office is pretty routine here. All they’re doing is serving the wants of their customers.
@BenelliMan - I think you could make an empirical case with enough data points though.
@nidan - If I wanted to make them atheists, I would give them the bible to read. It’s far more effective than richard dawkins or christopher hitchens.
I don’t care much about the reading material in an office. I want the doctor to fix whatever I have broken!
Having said that… I live in Southern California and some offices have religious stuff and some don’t. I don’t pay much attention to the types or what not though. Loma Linda medical offices always have religious literature but I expect that since they are affiliated with a specific church base. I think it’s rude to worry about religious material in a doctor’s office honestly. It’s just sitting there for the people who want to read it, it’s not shoving anything down anybody’s throat.
But the religious chitchat and assumptions would be rude. Unless they are just talking about their thing and not assuming all their patients go to a church.
There is a cool little restaurant in town owned by a Muslim. Each Christian/American holiday he goes all out on the decorations because he wishes for his customers to celebrate their culture/religion. I find it cool, but a little funny since there is a small Muslim population in the area.
Tolerance goes all ways, in all different directions.
@Kristenmomof3 - The dentist I use to go to had Party Cove posters up in all of his stations. You didn’t see them in the waiting room but once you were in the chair you were staring up at aerial views of scantily clad women in bikinis.
It was controversial to me because Party Cove is known as a place where the only things going on are drinking, public nudity, and even more public fornication. None of that was reflected in the posters, but this was a dentist whose clients were 85% children between the ages of 8 and 13. Yet no one else saw the controversy.
As was said in a previous comment, their office, their rules. What I don’t understand is why people are up in arms about religious materials in a doctor’s office but no one raises an eyebrow when an allegedly family friendly dentist puts up posters advertising a place where videos in the same vein as Girls Gone Wild have been shot and where even the most liberal parents I know wouldn’t want their children to go.
In my area people tend to be Athiest/Anti-Religion, (And intolerant if someone believes differently from them) There isn’t any religious stuff in my dentists office, and I don’t have a doctor that I see regularly. Myself being a Christian would love to see more of it because of the fact that I don’t. Would I? That would be a question that needs experimentation, to see whether or not I would. I would love to say that I wouldn’t but who can be sure?
Onto my reaction, assuming someone is a Christian is a little risque on the religious side, but I don’t know if it’s something to be offended over, unless you are completely and utterly anti-religion, then you can have a kind (and polite) word with your dentist if it makes you uncomfortable.
Just my thoughts. -shrug-
Maybe b/c I’m in NYC and on cheapo medical insurances but all my doctors’ offices have been religion-neutral for the most part. you have pamphlets, magazines, and in some places greek proverbs, founding father proverbs, stuff like that tops. i think it would be awesome if I saw Qur’aan/hadith excerpts in a Muslim doctor’s office. i’d probably read it if it was another religion and what not (in terms of excerpts on walls n stuff) and just be like, “cool.” it wouldn’t bother me if they doused the scene with religious whatever, unless there were icons and symbols everywhere (angels, crosses, candles, whatever). if it was just religious books then that’s their prerogative. but religious symbols everywhere? that’s too much for me.
I’ve not really noticed. Most offices I see have Parenting magazines, science/space magazines, outdoor magazines, etc. Sometimes they’ll have a children’s magazine. Not sure if any have had religious material though.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind in the least if there was a Koran or other religious book out. I know that those things exist and it doesn’t offend me to see them up. Why should it? I might even open one to see what’s inside. Though I’m Christian and I will not be changing that, I don’t mind learning something about someone else’s beliefs.
I’ve never seen religious material in my doctors office or dentist office. But, I think it is a natural place to have it, after all most of the country is Christian and sometimes going to the doctor can deal with a life or death discussion. After all, it is not a government building so it is not violating any separation of church and state laws.
Considering that I live in the Bible Belt, it’s pretty common to see Bibles in waiting rooms. And in hotel and hospital rooms, in the nightstand. Even a few restaurants I’ve worked at have a couple Bibles under the counter in case someone just happens to want to read it while they wait for their meal. I’ve even seen Scripture posted on auto repair signs.
That being said, even though I’m no Christian, it’s never bothered me to see any of these reading materials out in the open. Their place, their rules. I just simply don’t care. Nor would I care if there were a Qur’an or a Book of Mormon. Although, I might actually read those out of curiosity.
I’d only be annoyed if that was the ONLY thing to read in the office.
No there is no religious material in the Drs offices here. It is not allowed.
Surprisingly, I live in one of the MOST Christian towns in America, yet there are no religious texts anywhere but the book sections of the store. As a matter of fact, my doctor’s offices all put out science magazines. I wouldn’t be offended if they put out religious texts, I would just bring my own reading material or choose not to read. I think all religions are equally absurd, so it doesn’t matter what religion the text corresponded to.
Wait, people read? I’m kidding.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter what is there, sometimes I read it anyhow. That’s just how I am. I read everything including labels to food and products. Usually I don’t see any religious texts in my doctor’s office. It’s nothing to really be worried about. Though I’m sure nowadays, I’d be on my phone or playing my DS more than reading the magazines unless something catches my eye.
At Kaiser (in Hawaii) there’s never anything religious laying around. Not that I would mind. It’s reading material that you can choose to read….or not.
@Celestial_Teapot - I’m not suggesting there is anything wrong ordering your waiting room literature that way. If it were my bussiness and I lived in an area that intolerant of Christian beliefs, then I might do the same. That said, I would still not complain of Agno or Connor’s choice of literature. Even if it were in an area of the reverse kind of intolerance. On the contrary, I would likewise challenge those being intolerant.
@tendollar4ways - Maybe, but that scenario wouldn’t put Agno and Connor in the wrong. Just like I’m not in the wrong for teaching the spiritual aspects, and aplications of my style to my students.
@Celestial_Teapot - I want to be clear on this on comment. When I said I might do the same, I mean I might do the same as you and display literature that would be considered less inflamitory to my customers.
There is no religious material in my doctors office. It wouldn’t bother me if there was, though. I also wouldn’t mind if they had a Qur’an or Book of Mormon. I might even read them even though I’m a Christian. Different religions interest me.
Most offices in our area have mainly magazines. There seems to often be a bible and a qu’ran like book around, though. Among other things. I’ve been quite surprised. Where I’m originally from, we usually only had magazines and a bible from the gideons. Here, it’s like they account for everything.
I, personally, don’t see a problem. They’re not forcing you to read. They’re simply trying to meet everyone’s reading needs, is the way I see it. I’d be more offended if they didn’t allow it. Everyone has different taste in literature. I say, so long as they’re not forcing you to read it or exposing indecent images, why say they can’t have it available. You know?
@nidan - It all depends on what you mean by “wrong”. If their goal is to increase customers and they live in a uber religious Alabama it would be wrong to put out Atheistic Literature in their wating room because this would probably hurt business.
If their goal is to spread the atheistic message and business is secondary, no it wouldn’t be wrong.
It isn’t against the law so legally it isn’t wrong.
@tendollar4ways - Now you’re reminding me, we never got you that dictionary did we? When one uses the phrase “in the wrong” they mean from a moral standpoint. When one talks about the context of what the proper bussiness decision would be, (As I did with @Celestial_Teapot) one would more likely use the word prudent. In the religious context the more apropriate word might be Godly. Though I suppose in the context of “goal’s” as you framed it, “prudent” could be an apropriate word too. It’s just that putting the fliers out like that, wouldn’t really be prudent as a method for converting 95 percent of people from other religious beliefs to your’s. Though there are sidewalk preachers who would disagree, most Christians know that conversion requires a more personal touch, as well as influence from God. Then from the legal context the more apropriate words would be… well, legal, and illeagal.
@nidan - To tell you the truth, I don’t like the use of the word “Godly” in that context either. And from an Atheistic stand point it would be inapropriate. Were Connor and Agno to put atheistic liturature in their their waiting-room to try and convert Christians then they might use the phrase: “It’s the intelligent thing to do.” But that plays on their bias of what’s intelligent.
Tell you what: I’ll have to think on this one and get back to you. I’m sure there’s a much better word. At any rate my point in the above comment was clear enough without it.
@tendollar4ways - Oop’s clickeded reply on the wrong comment. See above ^^^
@agnophilo - I’d love it if you’d be willing to share this wisdom with Hitch and Dawkins. You may save them considerable time, energy and valuable resources with your idea.
Instead of tirelessly toiling to promote their brand of pop atheism; all they need to do is make a financial donation to the Gideon Bible Society.
Best thing since Bertie! :)
@nidan - I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth or lumping me in with connoryan.
@bakersdozen2 - They’ve said publicly that what they do is more to get atheists to come out of the closet than to “convert” anyone, as well as simply express their views like everyone else does. But it’s true, the bible has made more atheists than any atheist. And atheists in the US tend to be, on average, more knowledgeable about scripture than anyone for this very reason.
@agnophilo - Fair enough on your perspective regarding your experience as well as the experiences of other Atheists. Here are some thoughts from my perspective, if you don’t mind. First, It comes across more as an insult than it does an objective criticism/ observation and I can’t help but think that is the intent, at least in part. And that’s fine, we’re all free to express our thoughts and opinions.
Second, The Bible has made many more Christians throughout the centuries than it has Atheists. This is statistically inarguable. You may feel that this trend is changing but we wouldn’t be able to empirically prove this for several decades. At any rate, It’s probably the sort of thing that fluctuates.
Finally, I do think that Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins and Erhman have had an influence on (most especially) younger folks who have embraced atheism/rejected religion. This is my opinion based on how often I see each of these men quoted or their books promoted. I think there are other contributing factors that I won’t get into at the moment.
@agnophilo - Of course you would.
@bakersdozen2 -
“Fair enough on your perspective regarding
your experience as well as the experiences of other Atheists. Here are
some thoughts from my perspective, if you don’t mind. First, It comes
across more as an insult than it does an objective criticism/
observation and I can’t help but think that is the intent, at least in
part. And that’s fine, we’re all free to express our thoughts and
opinions.”
It honestly wasn’t meant as an insult, but I guess I could see why it would seem that way, and for that I apologize – was not my intent.
“Second, The Bible has made many more Christians
throughout the centuries than it has Atheists. This is statistically
inarguable. You may feel that this trend is changing but we wouldn’t be
able to empirically prove this for several decades. At any rate, It’s
probably the sort of thing that fluctuates.”
Yes and no. I think coercion, theocracy, indoctrination etc have been more to do with it, just as they have with islam. I think though that a modern person, when they are exposed to a belief like say that the world is 6,000 years old, has enough general knowledge that they can more often be skeptical of such claims, whereas someone in a pre-scientific age or the middle-ages where infidels were openly persecuted would find it far more difficult. The word atheist was defined by websters as “immorality” well into the 20th century and even now a majority of americans (and almost all christians) say they would not even consider voting for an atheist for public office – but we don’t get burned at the stake anymore or put in prisons for openly not believing – we just lose our families and friends, possibly our livelihoods. So the veil of persecution is lifting, painfully slowly as perhaps it always does. I think that and the availability of information is mainly why people see the bible differently than they have in the past. Also exposure to all the various religions of the world – hardly an argument for the validity of one religion exists that can’t be applied to other faiths, and so the attitude of “well they can’t all be right” makes many people lean toward the skeptic’s position.
“Finally, I do think
that Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins and Erhman have had an influence on (most
especially) younger folks who have embraced atheism/rejected religion.
This is my opinion based on how often I see each of these men quoted or
their books promoted. I think there are other contributing factors that I
won’t get into at the moment.”
I don’t think it’s a sign of youth, just that younger people tend to be more liberal and older people more conservative. That and that older people for biological reasons are usually less capable of real change, the mind as it ages gradually gets worse and worse at retaining new information, sometimes resulting in total senility. Thus the expression “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks”. So yeah, the elderly are generally going to hold more traditional views, and while there are many elderly atheists, I imagine most of them deconverted before they were eligible for social security.
@nidan - Yeah, screw you too.
I’ve never seen any religious materials in doctors’ offices in Dallas. Come to think of it, even growing up in rural Oklahoma I don’t recall ever seeing any blatantly religious materials at a doctor’s office. But then, I may not have noticed. It would surprise me if I saw it here. It’s usually just a variety of news and lifestyle magazines.
I don’t see any of that in my doctor/dental offices. Just old entertainment and gossip magazines. I haven’t seen anything religious. Of course, New York isn’t the most religious place in the United States, thankfully. Most adults I know are Christan, a good chunk of the youth I know are atheist. I live in a small city called Oswego. We have a lot of churches (maybe thirty) and one Jewish… synagog? I only know two Jewish families.